I'm having doubts...

[Sisifo]

I'm having a visit from outside town at my place for one day. This morning she surprised me asking me to take her to church, as it is Sunday. I had seen the cross in her neck, but never thought she was a practicing catholic. I refused, at first, a mild talk about God, took me to point out that she was Catholic, just because her parents were, and if they had been Muslims or Buddists she would be. That her religion had the value of never having thought about it... I saw her face and I saw that I was really hurting her. Her faith was like a child's, not armoured against anything. She just loves her Jesus and goes to mass. She has never read the bible, or talked about religion with anyone. It was a catholic approach to deism.

I thought then that on contrary to hardcore religious people, any classic argument was hitting. But also, that I was just destroying, without filling the gap. I thought that I should build a marvel to the universe, a love to reason and freethinking, a path to philosophy, before I would destroy the one thing that gives her those. And that was not possible in one day. I apologized, told her that I was pulling her leg, and took her to the closest church.
I came back thinking about that. That if we destroy beliefs without building at the same time something that takes that place: science, moral, reason... then, we make someone less; not more.
It came to my mind two mottos. The "primun non noscere" of the medicine, and the "campsite rule": Leave it in better shape that you found it.
I think now that I will try to be more cautious with my words. If I cannot be there and clean the mess, I don't think that I will keep on going with the axe into people's minds...

Then again, I read fundamentalist texts, and I take the axe back... I don't know what to do in these cases...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Where does this responsibility to "fill the gap" come from? If you put out a fire do you feel responsible to start another one?

[Sisifo]

Where does this responsibility to "fill the gap" come from? If you put out a fire do you feel responsible to start another one?

Yes. If that fire is keeping the house warm i feel that either I should start a new one, or justify and show that it isnt necesary.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Where does this responsibility to "fill the gap" come from? If you put out a fire do you feel responsible to start another one?

Yes. If that fire is keeping the house warm i feel that either I should start a new one, or justify and show that it isnt necesary.

So, do you think you should replace her philosophy with another? Shouldn't you give her the chance to start with a tabula rasa and find her own way? You can give her clues but we all have to solve the mystery ourselves.

[Sisifo]

Where does this responsibility to "fill the gap" come from? If you put out a fire do you feel responsible to start another one?

Yes. If that fire is keeping the house warm i feel that either I should start a new one, or justify and show that it isnt necesary.

So, do you think you should replace her philosophy with another? Shouldn't you give her the chance to start with a tabula rasa and find her own way? You can give her clues but we all have to solve the mystery ourselves.

Yes, of course you are right about it... But what if you cannot even show that there are different ways. My point is precisely that the clues, different interpretations of the puzzle, maybe should be shown before breaking what's there...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Where does this responsibility to "fill the gap" come from? If you put out a fire do you feel responsible to start another one?

Yes. If that fire is keeping the house warm i feel that either I should start a new one, or justify and show that it isnt necesary.

So, do you think you should replace her philosophy with another? Shouldn't you give her the chance to start with a tabula rasa and find her own way? You can give her clues but we all have to solve the mystery ourselves.

Yes, of course you are right about it... But what if you cannot even show that there are different ways. My point is precisely that the clues, different interpretations of the puzzle, maybe should be shown before breaking what's there...

You might point out that you have a good life, and enjoy the world around you. And if this is all we get, we should make the best of it.

[Rum]

I think your concerns are valid and I would not challenge the sort of person you describe too strongly. It is tantamount to bullying. On the other hand gently put questions are another thing. I think this is just being sensitive to people's feelings.

If, on the other hand, the 'believer' was trying to ram their faith down my throat or to influence my life I would not hesitate for a moment to bully back.

As to 'replacing' someone's religion - well there isn't anything to replace it is there - not even 'reason' replaces it.

[maiforpeace]

I think your concerns are valid and I would not challenge the sort of person you describe too strongly. It is tantamount to bullying. On the other hand gently put questions are another thing. I think this is just being sensitive to people's feelings.

If, on the other hand, the 'believer' was trying to ram their faith down my throat or to influence my life I would not hesitate for a moment to bully back.

As to 'replacing' someone's religion - well there isn't anything to replace it is there - not even 'reason' replaces it.

+1

Clearly, her beliefs have had nothing to do with your relationship so far, and why should it now? I'm with Rum on this one. I don't think it's worth ruining a relationship for something neither of you are absolutely sure about anyway. (whether or not god exists)

If she's religious enough to want to go to church, and your relationship continues, she will be asking you more questions in the future about your own beliefs. I say leave that field wide wide open by not pushing her and letting her come to you.

It must have been interesting for you to discover this about your friend though. Have you known each other long?

[Sisifo]

I think your concerns are valid and I would not challenge the sort of person you describe too strongly. It is tantamount to bullying. On the other hand gently put questions are another thing. I think this is just being sensitive to people's feelings.

If, on the other hand, the 'believer' was trying to ram their faith down my throat or to influence my life I would not hesitate for a moment to bully back.

As to 'replacing' someone's religion - well there isn't anything to replace it is there - not even 'reason' replaces it.

+1

Clearly, her beliefs have had nothing to do with your relationship so far, and why should it now? I'm with Rum on this one. I don't think it's worth ruining a relationship for something neither of you are absolutely sure about anyway. (whether or not god exists)

If she's religious enough to want to go to church, and your relationship continues, she will be asking you more questions in the future about your own beliefs. I say leave that field wide wide open by not pushing her and letting her come to you.

It must have been interesting for you to discover this about your friend though. Have you known each other long?

No; she works for an NGO in the north, and we spent a couple of days by bike by the mountains of the Sapa region. I see her sometimes when I go to Hanoi.
I agree, it would only bully her.

[Drewish]

I agree with the OP when it comes to strangers, but with loved ones... well if you can't have the deep conversations with them, then who can?

[FBM]

Sisifo, I applaud the compassionate response. I've damaged several relationships because I was so dogmatic that it was tantamount to bullying. I try harder to rein myself in these days. Planting a seed of doubt, encouraging her to examine her beliefs for probably the first time in her life, that's a good start, I'd say. Horses and virgins: if you try to push them too far too fast, somebody's going to get hurt.

[Drewish]

Sisifo, I applaud the compassionate response. I've damaged several relationships because I was so dogmatic that it was tantamount to bullying. I try harder to rein myself in these days. Planting a seed of doubt, encouraging her to examine her beliefs for probably the first time in her life, that's a good start, I'd say. Horses and virgins: if you try to push them too far too fast, somebody's going to get hurt.

[FBM]

Sisifo, I applaud the compassionate response. I've damaged several relationships because I was so dogmatic that it was tantamount to bullying. I try harder to rein myself in these days. Planting a seed of doubt, encouraging her to examine her beliefs for probably the first time in her life, that's a good start, I'd say. Horses and virgins: if you try to push them too far too fast, somebody's going to get hurt.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z50stbEJoWk[/youtube

I knew I shouldn't have clicked...

[charlou]

Very sensitive and considerate, Carlos.

[floppit]

Where does this responsibility to "fill the gap" come from? If you put out a fire do you feel responsible to start another one?

Hell, where does my responsibility to correct someone else's misguided but much loved faith come from?