E. M. Cioran

[Lozzer]

Has anyone heard of the Romanian "anti-philosopher" E. M. Cioran? I'mr eading some of his quotes and he's fucking fantastic. He's the most pessimistic author ever to have stepped on the Earth. He was a nihilist and was quite happy to point out that everything we do is the product of of incapacity to kill or to kill ourselves. He was a happy happy man.

Thing is, from what i can gather he was an atheist. But in one quote he states that civilisations crumble only when their gods do? But he also said that intelligence flourishes in ages when belief withers? I think he was bright enough not to say the former. But I'm unsure.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Lozzer, you can make a case that civilizations take their gods down with them, I suppose. I wouldn't say there's a one-to-one correspondence, however.

[Beelzebub2]

Actually he was agnostic and his view of god can be seen in these quotes: "God - a disease we imagine we are cured of because no one dies of it nowadays", "Without Bach, god would be a complete second rate figure", "Bach's music is the only argument proving the creation of the Universe can not be regarded a complete failure" etc.

More here.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Actually he was agnostic and his view of god can be seen in these quotes: "God - a disease we imagine we are cured of because no one dies of it nowadays", "Without Bach, god would be a complete second rate figure", "Bach's music is the only argument proving the creation of the Universe can not be regarded a complete failure" etc.

More here.

I agree. "Gods" are one of the institutions that crash when a civilization goes south.

[Lozzer]

I love him! There's something poetic in his fatalistic and nihilistic ramblings. He seems like he wrote the script for the Joker in Dark Knight.

[Beelzebub2]

"Balkans — that taste for devastation, for internal clutter, for a universe like a brothel on fire... the last "primitives" in Europe."

[Hermit]

Susan Sontag has him pegged when she described him as "writing today in the tradition of Kierkegaard, Nietzsche and Wittgenstein." Pity she missed the resemblance to Wilde. Their main achievement consists of coming up with a series of disjointed, pithy aphorisms. After being briefly fascinated by their word smithing skills, their ear for something that sounds stylish and catchy, the knack for creating bon mots, I am left wondering if there is anything else beyond the superficial and temporary appeal. The only thing I can discern is that they reveal the emotional states of their authors, which in itself is not a particularly engrossing topic.

Somehow Sontag forgot to mention as well that Cioran was a right wing lunatic. "There is no present-day politician that I see as more sympathetic and admirable than Hitler", he wrote, and commented approvingly on the Night of the Long Knives ("what has humanity lost if the lives of a few imbeciles were taken"). He was a self-described 'Hitlerite'.

Having wasted more time on that sorry pretence of a thinker than I wished to, I'll stop here.

[Lozzer]

Wrong, he was a self-described 'Hitlerist' during his youth, but in his later writings he was pretty clear on how much he regretted his old fascistic ideology.

You shag one sheep...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Balkans — that taste for devastation, for internal clutter, for a universe like a brothel on fire... the last "primitives" in Europe."

He's never been to France, then?

[Beelzebub2]

"Balkans — that taste for devastation, for internal clutter, for a universe like a brothel on fire... the last "primitives" in Europe."

He's never been to France, then?

He left for France in 1937 with a scholarship from the French Institute of Bucharest. From the moment of his departure, he published books only in French to the extreme joy and pleasure of his numerous readers. He is even buried at the Montparnasse Cemetery.

As far as France is concerned, it seems that his threshold for primitivism and snobbishness was extremely low - he must have had an extremely accepting and good-hearted nature because he managed to embrace even Mussolini: "Fascism is a shock, without which Italy is a compromise comparable to today's Romania".

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"Balkans — that taste for devastation, for internal clutter, for a universe like a brothel on fire... the last "primitives" in Europe."

He's never been to France, then?

He left for France in 1937 with a scholarship from the French Institute of Bucharest. From the moment of his departure, he published books only in French to the extreme joy and pleasure of his numerous readers. He is even buried at the Montparnasse Cemetery.

As far as France is concerned, it seems that his threshold for primitivism and snobbishness was extremely low - he must have had an extremely accepting and good-hearted nature because he managed to embrace even Mussolini: "Fascism is a shock, without which Italy is a compromise comparable to today's Romania".

I once threw a French waiter into the Med. Service improved after that.

[Hermit]

he was a self-described 'Hitlerist' during his youth

His youth? Like millions of others, his 'regret' did not take place until after the fall of the Third Empire in 1945; and he was born in 1911. Then, there's the question as to whether Cioran genuinely regretted his allegiance to Hitler. In 1960 he was rather equivocal about him: "I don't know whether he is to be admired or scorned, regarded as a saint or a corpse."

Be it as it may, my contempt is largely based on his so called philosophical output rather than the political sympathies of his 'youth'. I am astounded that anybody can see worth in excretions such as "Existing is plagiarism". Occasionally aphorisms can sort of shed light on an obscured matter, but none of Cioran's do. He was a total, self absorbed wanker and his life was an utter waste. Stamp collectors are potentially more useful than he turned out to be.

[Lozzer]

Who do you recommend then?

[Feck]

John Grey ... The Straw Dogs

[Hermit]

Who do you recommend then?

I recommend you pick and choose from the writings of many thinkers. Cioran just happens to be particularly slim pickings, but then he was not much of a thinker. He was a morose, self-indulgent wanker. His appeal is limited to... Fuck. I'm sure you can work it out yourself.