Economists

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 14667
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Economists

Post by Sean Hayden » Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:15 pm

What do they know? Do they know things? Let's find out.

1. Have tax cuts increased revenue?
Do not be alarmed, I'm popping a gender reveal cannon.

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 67667
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by JimC » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:11 pm

From all that I've read, economists are very divided, with a wide range of opinions, and few of those based on evidence that the general public could either understand or trust.

The dismal science indeed...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Sean Hayden
Microagressor
Posts: 14667
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 3:55 pm
About me: philobarbaros
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by Sean Hayden » Mon Aug 24, 2020 9:58 pm

That's been my impression too, ergo this thread.

Regarding question 1. we've had data here since at least Reagan, and yet you get answers from definently not, to yes, but the effect is small, to Reagan proved it, to it's never even been tested!
Do not be alarmed, I'm popping a gender reveal cannon.

User avatar
Seabass
Posts: 6009
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 7:32 pm
About me: Antifa Provocateur
Location: Covidiocracy
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by Seabass » Mon Aug 24, 2020 10:57 pm

It's pretty much been definitively proven at this point that cutting taxes doesn't increase revenue. Every time the Republicans do it, the deficit explodes and the magical increase in productivity never comes.
"Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." —Voltaire
"They want to take away your hamburgers. This is what Stalin dreamt about but never achieved." —Sebastian Gorka

PsychoSerenity
"I" Self-Perceive Recursively
Posts: 7820
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:57 am
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by PsychoSerenity » Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:48 pm

I'm fascinated by economics but it's so frustrating because so much of it is pure pseudoscience for the purpose political propaganda.
[Disclaimer - if this is comes across like I think I know what I'm talking about, I want to make it clear that I don't. I'm just trying to get my thoughts down]

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 23879
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by Hermit » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:34 am

PsychoSerenity wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:48 pm
I'm fascinated by economics but it's so frustrating because so much of it is pure pseudoscience for the purpose political propaganda.
The contortions some pundits go through in order to prove that black is white can be truly amazing. For example, an article titled US Wages Have Been Rising Faster Than Productivity For Decades purports to prove that this graph depicting the increasing gap between wages and productivity

Image

is totally wrong. It begins with redefining income. Adding employers's contributions to pension and health insurance costs is fair enough, but that still does not go near closing the gap. So the author proceeds to fiddle with inflation via the CPI, and adds "interesting concepts, such as "hedonistic adjustments", which somehow reduce inflation for wage earners only, and "demand shifts", which also have that effect.

In the end he comes up with this set of squiggly lines:

Image

See? The difference between productivity and wages growth has all but disappeared.


An interesting thing to note is that you cannot tell from any of those charts whether economic policy was controlled by the conservatives (Republicans) or the neoliberals (Democrats), be they in the House of Representatives, the Senate or the Oval Office.

Image
So you talk about mobs and the working classes as if they were the question. You've got that eternal idiotic idea that if anarchy came it would come from the poor. Why should it? The poor have been rebels, but they have never been anarchists; they have more interest than anyone else in there being some decent government. The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all. Aristocrats were always anarchists. - G.K. Chesterton

User avatar
laklak
Posts: 19835
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
Location: Tannhauser Gate
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by laklak » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:35 am

Give me a one-handed Economist. All my economists say 'on hand...', then 'but on the other... - Harry S. Truman
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 36548
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by Svartalf » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:20 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:15 pm
What do they know? Do they know things? Let's find out.

1. Have tax cuts increased revenue?
Wait what? whose revenue are you asking about?
because technically it doesn't.
a) tax cust actually diminish state revenue, mechanically.
b) although they increase the available money to taxpayers concerned, they don't actually increase their raw revenue, only the portion they have available after mandatory expenses are paid.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 36548
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by Svartalf » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:22 am

PsychoSerenity wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:48 pm
I'm fascinated by economics but it's so frustrating because so much of it is pure pseudoscience for the purpose political propaganda.
'fraid so, I've known honest economists who knew their stuff, but far too many of the breed are actually ideologists touting blatant falsehoods, though I'm not sure whether they actually believe in them or are lying throught their teeth... lying for the Bottom Line.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
pErvinalia
Off his meds
Posts: 55249
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:52 am

Svartalf wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:20 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:15 pm
What do they know? Do they know things? Let's find out.

1. Have tax cuts increased revenue?
Wait what? whose revenue are you asking about?
because technically it doesn't.
a) tax cust actually diminish state revenue, mechanically.
b) although they increase the available money to taxpayers concerned, they don't actually increase their raw revenue, only the portion they have available after mandatory expenses are paid.
Well the argument is that when you free up capital it will lead to greater investment and growth (thereby increasing the tax intake). Basically
Image
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"My penis is VERY small" - Cunt.

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 36548
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by Svartalf » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:22 am

that's the same brand of poppycock as trickle down economics... because, still mechanically, the "additional"' tax revenue generated by economic growth and lessened tax fraud will STILL be significantly less than the reduction from the cuts, since some of those will be kept by the taxpayer, and anyway, since the "additional" tax revenue depends on the actual taxable portion of profits made on investments, it would take these investments making truly astounding profits for the taxes on those to compensate the original cuts.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Brian Peacock
Tipping cows since 1946
Posts: 31512
Joined: Thu Mar 05, 2009 11:44 am
About me: Ablate me:
Location: Location: Location:
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:34 am

"Economies are regulated systems of social relations and interaction. Without regulation there is no economy; merely feudal barbarism."
-- Homiton Guthridge, An Incomplete Guide To Revolution, 1889
Rationalia relies on voluntary donations. There is no obligation of course, but if you value this place and want to see it continue please consider making a small donation towards the forum's running costs.
Details on how to do that can be found here.

.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

User avatar
pErvinalia
Off his meds
Posts: 55249
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:43 am

Yeah, but it's regulated for the rich against the poorer.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"My penis is VERY small" - Cunt.

User avatar
laklak
Posts: 19835
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:07 pm
About me: My preferred pronoun is "Massah"
Location: Tannhauser Gate
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by laklak » Tue Aug 25, 2020 2:46 pm

They just need to learn to live within their means. That's what they tell us to do. Oh yeah - and save enough so they can get by for 6 months without income.

What's sauce for the goose.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

User avatar
Joe
Posts: 3441
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2017 1:10 am
Location: The Hovel under the Mountain
Contact:

Re: Economists

Post by Joe » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:02 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Mon Aug 24, 2020 8:15 pm
What do they know? Do they know things? Let's find out.

1. Have tax cuts increased revenue?
No, tax cuts buy votes.

The Laffer theory is that, if the tax rate is high enough, a cut in the rate will stimulate the economy sufficiently to lead to an increase in revenue.

I minored in economics in college and understand the theory. It looks good on paper, but in the hands of politicians it's "voodoo economics."
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
"as far as strong, i am hard as a rock and tough as a nail. no one will bring me down. no one. i am the debonator. the tnt. and jesus has my back door pal!" - D. C. Bockemehl
"If you vote for idiots, idiots will run the country." - Dr. Kori Schake

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests