Prayers before Legislative Bodies

[Seabass]

Yes lak. A total lack of comprehension. Never mind.

If you're OK with the government supervising your personal finances and sending police to collect dues for the lawn bowls club then who am I to criticize? I'd get the fuck out of that particular Dodge, but that's just me, I'm an anachronistic individualist and have no place in this modern, fair, collectivist society. Lucky for me I've pretty much dropped out of it, at least as far as is possible.

We imprison more per capita than any other nation. We work more than everyone else. We've got more debt than most. We go bankrupt from medical bills more than everyone else. We get shot in elementary school more than everyone else. I really don't think we're freer than people in other developed nations...

[laklak]

Somebody's gotta be last.

I'm not arguing that there aren't problems in the U.S., but that has nothing to do with giving the government the authority to TAX you for fucking soccer club dues or forcing you to declare your religion to some minor functionary AND if you do declare one, to take a percentage of your goddamn income to support the fucking pedos. I absolutely, categorically refuse to do that, you'll have to sling my saggy old ass in jail and pay for my bologna sandwiches. I'm not buying into debtor's prison either, that's something we got rid of when we threw out the Redcoats and King Billy III.

It's not a binary choice, You do not have to give the gummint access to your entire fucking life in order to improve healthcare or minimize mass shootings in elementary schools. That's a typical SJW strawman, LOOK! DEAD KIDS AND OLD PEOPLE WITH NO INSULIN! GIVE US YOUR BANK ACCOUNT!

No. Fuck them.

[Scot Dutchy]

Comparatively, the Netherlands has disposable income of $28,000 per capital, which is less than 2/3 that of Americans. Average American lives in a home about 2500 square feet, compared to a puny 1200 in the Netherlands.

How much, did you say, you pay for health insurance? Public transport and other amenities?

As for the size of homes, do keep population density in mind. US: 33/km². Netherlands: 417. Yes, it does make homes more expensive per square metre. Most people in western Europe don't even own houses. They live in apartments. I don't think that's a measure of well-being or lack thereof, though. I'd rather live in a small residence and have a tram or bus stop near my front door and shops within easy walking distance than live in a huge house where nobody gets anywhere unless they have a car, and I bet most Europeans would not like to swap with your conditions either. In the US two or more cars per household are not signs of wealth. They are utilities of necessity.

Thanks Hermit. He has not got a clue.
I have 16 hospital appointments this next five weeks. It does not cost me a cent and in fact I never think about money. I was in A&E in the weekend. Had x-rays, CT scans and blood tests. Not a cent. In those appointments are two more CT scans, two talks with a specialist, three lung function tests. A heart function test and many smiles.

I pay €110 a month for the best health system in Europe. We are the 6th most happiest country in the world. Our kids are the happiest in the first world. Were are the 7th highest GDP per capita in the world. The second highest exporter of fruit and veg in the world. Only America beats us on sheer quantity not on quality. We have one of lowest incarceration levels in the world 45 per 100,000 population. There is so much more. I can walk the streets any time without fear especially of not being shot. The average working week is here 37 hours. With 30% of men and 60% of women working part time. Why? Their free time is important to them especially if they have kids. Parents can take a Papa or Mama day off once a week.

We have problems of course but nothing compared to America and we do solve them. We are one of several countries in Northern Europe that enjoys this standard of living.

[NineBerry]

Sure they can, but the issue here, at least to my uncivilized American mind, is giving the government authority to collect my soccer club dues using the entire repressive appartus of the police state. That goes for my cell phone bill, mortgage, credit card bills, and any and all other private debts. If y'all are OK with that level of intrusion that's great, I would resist it with every fiber of my being and all my horded ammunition. Fuck them. Governments are, by their very nature, totalitarian, and must be resisted, blocked, stymied, and otherwise restrained by all right-thinking citizens. That is why we have a Constitution that severely limits their power and a 2nd Amendment for when that fails.

You didn't listen. Tax debt and private debts follow basically the same process (as outlined above) in Germany.

[Scot Dutchy]

Weird how some Americans think.

[NineBerry]

I don't think I've understood it, because it sounds absurd. Do German churches own all Protestants everywhere or only those within Germany, and how does that work? Why should a German citizen be expected to pay a centralized Protestant authority in Germany on account of their being that particular faith? Perhaps they are, but they would rather support another authority or choose to recognize no authority? They can't claim to be of that faith then? Tough shit, you'll pay this Protestant authority?

German churches are mighty full of themselves aren't they?

It is an issue of membership. There are plenty of Christians in Germany who are not members of churches that are registered to receive church tax. And so these people don't pay church tax. You can change your registration at any time.

[NineBerry]

There is a difference between religion in the US and Germany. In the US, religion is mostly a matter of belief. You are a Christian because you believe that Jesus is the son of God. In Germany, religion is a matter of social organisation. Opinion polls regularly show that a huge part of members of the Christian churches in Germany don't share any of the core tenets of Christianity beyond "Jesus was a nice guy" and "there might be some purpose to the universe".

[Sean Hayden]

Some basic problems with the study stem from its small sample size and how bankruptcy is defined for the purposes of the study. Despite attempting to get a sample size of 2,314 individuals, only 1,032 were actually interviewed for the study. Himmselstein also links all medical debt with bankruptcy. Even if an individual were to be a dollar in medical debt, and went bankrupt for any reason, he is factored into the 62 percent statistic. While Himmselstein does specify that in 92 percent of medical bankruptcies the individual has debts of over $5,000, his methodology is still sloppy. The respondents themselves may give better testimony to the causes of their bankruptcy, as only 32 percent of them attributed it to medical expenses.

What!? That can't be right.

https://mpalumbo.liberty.me/debunking-t ... yth/#_ftn3
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/ar ... lar/60211/
--//--

Thanks NineBerry, knew it couldn't be that crazy.

[Seabass]

It's not a binary choice, You do not have to give the gummint access to your entire fucking life in order to improve healthcare or minimize mass shootings in elementary schools. That's a typical SJW strawman, LOOK! DEAD KIDS AND OLD PEOPLE WITH NO INSULIN! GIVE US YOUR BANK ACCOUNT!

Alls I'm saying is that the notion that we're freer than people in other developed countries is a myth. In many respects we're less free. Germany's incarceration rate is 11% of what ours is.

[Hermit]

It's not a binary choice, You do not have to give the gummint access to your entire fucking life in order to improve healthcare or minimize mass shootings in elementary schools.

Since when is registering as a Catholic, registering your firearms or whatever, synonymous with giving the government access to your entire fucking life? Besides, your government, and your corporations for that matter, have much better ways of prying into the private details of your life. They read your emails and track what you buy and where. Thanks to outfits like Cambridge Analytica they also have a pretty fucking good idea about what you think, what you fear and what you desire, in part because they manipulate you into thinking what they want you to think. You're an open fucking book, man, and by that I don't just mean Facebook, in which you don't mind posting at all.

Cheeses fucking crust, you're really becoming as hysterical as Seth now. If you want to get upset about giving access to your entire fucking life rant on about ECHELON and big data mining.

[pErvinalia]

Did you see the wealth inequality of the Netherlands? They have about the biggest wealth inequality in all of Europe, even with their supposed efforts to combat it.

Dutch inequality is the best inequality.

[Hermit]

Did you see the wealth inequality of the Netherlands? They have about the biggest wealth inequality in all of Europe, even with their supposed efforts to combat it.

Dutch inequality is the best inequality.

What there is of it. Coito Two seems to have engaged in some very creative cherry picking. He did not cite his source, but I suspect it is this one: "In it together: Why less inequality benefits all ...in the Netherlands". Yes, it does say "the top 10% owns 60% of all net wealth", but it also provides the following information:

Gini coefficient:
Netherlands - 0.278
OECD average - 0.315
USA - 0.401

I could not find the data on which he based his assertion that "They have about the biggest wealth inequality in all of Europe" on, but the Gini coefficient as rather more significant anyway, and the Netherlands are doing quite well in that regard.

More stuff from the same site that Coito Two prefers to not mention:

[Scot Dutchy]

Troll central never quote their sources.

Nice Hermit. I think Twee en Viertig is just jealous the poor thing.

[Hermit]

Troll central never quote their sources.

Nice Hermit. I think Twee en Viertig is just jealous the poor thing.

Actually more often than not, Coito Two does provide links to his sources. His weaknesses are brazen cherry picking, which is fairly easy to detect, and peculiar interpretations of what he makes of those cherries. The latter is particularly difficult to get him to acknowledge on account of his impenetrable ideological blinders.

Also: Stop trolling. That's what your repetitive mentions of "troll central" amount to. It's quite a childish variant too. Our member from Yellowknife does it heaps better.

I think Twee en Viertig is just jealous the poor thing.

He is definitely not. Coito Two is absolutely certain that the US, and his interpretation of what it stands for are the best thing going on this entire planet. His confidence is unshakeable. Jealousy could not be further from his mind.

[Brian Peacock]

Soccer clubs should have the same right to try to get money someone owes them as the state. Why not? And why should religions organizations not demand membership fees just as soccer clubs do?

They can do what they want, but if you had churches here in the US asking to have citizens required to register as either Catholic or some other denomination (or non-religious) and then if one picked a denomination, a State mandated 8% tax would be imposed and paid over to the official churches/synagogues, then you'd have a rather fair bit of outrage here that church and state are being mixed.

The ability to "demand" membership fees does not require the taxing authority to collect it for them.

Isn't it just an administrative matter, like tax exemptions on charitable donations? Nobody is being compelled to donate some of their earning to their church any more than they're being compelled to donate to the local dogs home. The tax office is facilitating the donations on behalf of both parties while ensuring that a level playing field applies across the board.