Yet more problematic stuff

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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:31 pm

Yeah, bloody youngsters these days... ungrateful, pretentious, flat-stomached smooth-skinned bastards :lay:
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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by laklak » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:02 pm

My roommate made a giant penis out of chicken wire and paper mache. 2 other friends went as before and after tampons, one was two cardboard tubes, the other was covered in cotton wool and red dye, both had strings on their heads, My ex was a pregnant nun, I was a priest in fishnets and high heels. Charlie Manson was a popular character, as was Nixon with a giant dick nose.

Those were the days, my friends. Now my costume is an old, arthritic fart.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by Forty Two » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:19 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:31 pm
Yeah, bloody youngsters these days... ungrateful, pretentious, flat-stomached smooth-skinned bastards :lay:


Flat-stomached? Would 'twere....
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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by Forty Two » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:40 pm

laklak wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:06 pm
Seabass wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:39 am
laklak wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 3:21 am
It's fuckin' hilarious. We got Coonman, the Lt. Gov is apparently a pervert, third guy in line is also a racist, and the 4th in line for the Govship is a Republican. The GOP could pick up another governorship without doing anything at all.

C'mon, this is some funny shit. Only in America, what a country.
:funny:

So the AG also wore blackface?! Wtf is going on with Virginia and blackface? Is there anyone left in Virginia government who hasn't worn blackface? :doh:
People forget that Virginia was the Heart and Soul of the Confederacy, Richmond was the capitol and it was home to Marse Robert E. Lee, the finest gentleman the South ever produced, bless him.

When I was in high school (graduated '72) blackface wasn't uncommon, even at school sponsored events. We flew the Confederate battle flag at football games.
I shouldn't say anything, because I'm sure it's only a matter of time before the kind-hearted Progressive Leftists come for Brazil's Festa Confederada. So insensitive....
stopa.jpg
Festa Confederada
But, I'm sure there will be some rationalization that Brazil is a third world country, and is oppressed, and therefore Brazilians having a Festival celebrating expatriate Confederates from the Confederate States of America will be fine....
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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by Forty Two » Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:41 pm

laklak wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:02 pm
My roommate made a giant penis out of chicken wire and paper mache. 2 other friends went as before and after tampons, one was two cardboard tubes, the other was covered in cotton wool and red dye, both had strings on their heads, My ex was a pregnant nun, I was a priest in fishnets and high heels. Charlie Manson was a popular character, as was Nixon with a giant dick nose.

Those were the days, my friends. Now my costume is an old, arthritic fart.
Now if a guy comes to the party dressed as a woman it's transphobia.

Cinco de Mayo is cultural appropriation.
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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Thu Feb 07, 2019 9:30 pm

Forty Two wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:41 pm
laklak wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 6:02 pm
My roommate made a giant penis out of chicken wire and paper mache. 2 other friends went as before and after tampons, one was two cardboard tubes, the other was covered in cotton wool and red dye, both had strings on their heads, My ex was a pregnant nun, I was a priest in fishnets and high heels. Charlie Manson was a popular character, as was Nixon with a giant dick nose.

Those were the days, my friends. Now my costume is an old, arthritic fart.
Now if a guy comes to the party dressed as a woman it's transphobia.

Cinco de Mayo is cultural appropriation.
No shit lol

At our local 'Pride' festival, an organizer approached a guy who was wearing a dress and angrily told him 'he couldn't wear a woman's dress as a costume'. He said it wasn't a womans dress, it was HIS dress. Continued in costume.

I think he made a smart choice, but that organizer is still organizing, so my guess is that he found more 'dress friendly' venues to celebrate his neckline (or whatever got him into that dress)
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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:29 pm

It's problematic that the folks here who whinge the most about wanting to do something to help with climate change, won't go DO something about it, even if it's WILDLY cool, simply because it is unreasonably hard work.
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So which of you princesses wants to come wrestle some big teddy bear looking things?
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You are a Republican. You are a conservative, right-wing Republican. You are part of sickness that must be cured for the sake of humanity.
Seabass in the quote above makes me ashamed to be associated with the political left.

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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by trdsf » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:47 am

Cunt wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:20 pm
trdsf wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 12:26 pm

And it also doesn't get at one of my original points: where is the Republican outrage when it's a Republican so accused? Why is it always a "youthful indiscretion" when it's a Republican and "*HOWL* *ARGH* *BLOOD*!!!" when it's a Democrat? Well, I mean, I know why — plain, old fashioned hypocrisy — but an explanation is not the same thing as an excuse.
It isn't only one side doing it. The Ford allegations were 'timed', and played like a gambit.

Both sides are appealing to that lowest common element. Both sides tell their voters that the others side are deplorable.

I am a leftie. Always been one in my mind. Always come up leftie on those political compass things. Bet you wouldn't expect that the most common thing, when I take a nuanced stance on a 'signal issue' (such as the Ford allegations) is to accuse me of being a rightie.

I feel conservative about a lot of stuff, would choose conservative candidates in some cases. Doesn't matter...if I don't toe the party line on an idea, the party members start accusing me of being the enemy.
That's changing the subject, and we can address that later.

I'm not talking about the timing of the allegations, I'm talking about the way the parties react. Democrats will as readily turn on other Democrats -- that's what happened to Al Franken, and that's what's happening to Ralph Northam -- and with regard to her botched handling of ancestry claims, that's what's happening to Elizabeth Warren right now, too. It's an overreaction of "guilty until proven innocent", as I stated previously, and also stated was wrong.

Republicans don't do that. Orrin Hatch summed it up more honestly when he said, quite literally in regard to allegations about criminal activity by Trump, "I don't care".

It seems quite clear that in the Republican mind, the rules are different for Democrats and Republicans. It doesn't matter that Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell used private email servers for government business, only that Hillary did. The Supreme Court can get along just fine for nearly a year on only eight Justices, until it's a Republican nominee up, in which case it's more important to confirm him quickly rather than actually verify the truth of allegations against him.

Where are the Republicans calling for the resignation of Virginia State Senate Majority Leader Tommy Norment over his role as managing editor of the VMI yearbook in 1968, when it was peppered not only with pictures of students in blackface, but multiple racist references?

Where are the demands that Rep. Steve King (R-IA) step down? Congressional Republicans backed a milquetoast "resolution of disapproval" that does... fuck-all. They removed him from some committee assignments, that's all. He's still a congressman, and the party's attitude is obviously "Okay, we slapped his wrist, let's move on."

There is no question that there's a Republican double standard that's far worse than any the Democrats might practice -- you simply cannot shrug it off with "both sides do it". They demonstrably don't. Look at all the Democrats calling on Northam to resign over something racist he did 35 years ago... and there's but one Republican I can find (Liz Cheney, R-WI) calling on King to resign over something racist he did less than 35 days ago.

You just can't play the equivalence card here. The facts don't support it.

(edited to fix a broken link)
Last edited by trdsf on Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by Seabass » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:57 am

Forty Two wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:11 pm
I'm an atheist, but I believe in personal redemption on this earth, and I believe in forgiveness and a modicum of tolerance here.
Oh, please. Yes, you're very forgiving toward hateful, psychotic authoritarian right-wing assholes like Trump, who you continue to support regardless of all the cruel policies his administration has enacted that ruin the lives of brown immigrants and asylum seekers, Haitian refugees, Vietnamese refugees, trans soldiers, gay people, etc. You've got no forgiveness or tolerance for his victims though, do you, so drop the nice guy act.
Forty Two wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:11 pm
I have no doubt that if Northam was a Republican, the treatment of the offender wold be far, far, farrrr worse and more onerous and the guy would already be gone, and there would be no hand-wringing or discussion on MSNBC and CNN with both sides of the story being agonizingly poured over - no -- but, that hypocrisy doesn't change the fact that Northam is being pilloried for something that (a) should have been discovered, and if deemed relevant publicized decades ago, and (b) is 34 years ago when the guy was in his early 20s, in a far less "conservative" age in a far more "tolerant" age where people didn't get their lives destroyed over costumes and politically incorrect humor.
Pfft. Surely you jest. Republicans get caught doing racist shit all the time, but it's usually barely a blip on the radar because we're all used to it. Steve King has been doing far worse for over a decade, and only just recently has had to pay any sort of political price for it.
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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Feb 08, 2019 1:08 am

Regarding what trdsf wrote above...

It's because conservatives have a born-to-rule mentality. Indiscretions can be easily overlooked in favour of the bigger view that because someone is a conservative they have an inherent right to rule in any manner they see fit.
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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by Seabass » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:18 am

:funny: :funny: :funny:

This is definitely a case of outrage culture/political correctness gone mad. What I find offensive is that people actually paid $900 for this crazy-ass sweater.

Gucci Apologizes And Removes Sweater Following 'Blackface' Backlash
https://www.npr.org/2019/02/07/69231495 ... e-backlash
Image
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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:54 am

trdsf wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:47 am

You just can't play the equivalence card here. The facts don't support it.

(edited to fix a broken link)
I guess it would depend on the politics of the person looking for bias.

Is racism something which could bar someone from public office? I mean, in a democratic election, racists get to vote, so calling someone a racist doesn't suggest to me that they should be barred from any public office.

So it goes back to whether one side or the other is organized. The republicans stick together, and the democrats turn on each other. Sounds like it's not a very good thing 'optically', but probably each system has virtue.
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Seabass wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:33 pm
You are a Republican. You are a conservative, right-wing Republican. You are part of sickness that must be cured for the sake of humanity.
Seabass in the quote above makes me ashamed to be associated with the political left.

The pErnivalia antidote = Just ask him a few direct questions, and he will flee with his trademark
pErvinalia wrote:trolololol..

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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by trdsf » Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:52 am

Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:54 am
trdsf wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:47 am

You just can't play the equivalence card here. The facts don't support it.

(edited to fix a broken link)
I guess it would depend on the politics of the person looking for bias.
It doesn't depend on anything more than observation. Show me half the Republican leadership calling for Steve King's head — or Donald Trump's, for that matter, when he spits out another demonstrably dishonest and/or insulting tweet.
Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:54 am
Is racism something which could bar someone from public office? I mean, in a democratic election, racists get to vote, so calling someone a racist doesn't suggest to me that they should be barred from any public office.
You keep coming back to this question, even though it hasn't really been part of what I've been discussing — but now that we've cleared away some of the underbrush, sure.

The flat answer is, I don't know.

To me, it depends a lot more on whether we're talking about someone who used to be a racist (explicitly or implicitly) or someone who currently is a racist. I am horrified that the latter are still considered electable in parts of this country, but being a racist isn't illegal. Some racist actions are illegal, or at least bring hate crime provisions into play, but thoughts aren't actions. And I can conceive of the possibility of a politician who held racist beliefs but set them aside (as far as possible) in the execution of their job.

What I don't like is the rush to judgment. If there's a non-partisan state ethics panel, let them investigate.

But whatever the rule is, let it be applied equally. If Governor Northam and AG Herring should step down for what they did in college, then so should state Senate Majority Leader Norment.

Now, would I personally vote for an otherwise qualified candidate who I knew to hold racist beliefs? Probably not. I'm gay; I'm not going to cast my vote for someone who's made homophobic remarks or opposed equality legislation. In fact, the last Republican I voted for was in a state Senate race, where she was running to the left of the Democrat, who had made several homophobic comments before and during the campaign. She got elected, too, picking up the endorsement of the local Stonewall Union no less.
Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 2:54 am
So it goes back to whether one side or the other is organized. The republicans stick together, and the democrats turn on each other. Sounds like it's not a very good thing 'optically', but probably each system has virtue.
Now this depends on your point of view. I would phrase it more along the lines that the Republicans put party above principle in a lockstep, Stepford Wives-y way and apply rules with a clear double standard... and that Democrats can put principle above party, at cost of party unity (I can but reference Will Rogers here -- "I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!").

I will admit that I have more than once wished my Democrats had the discipline of the Republicans, but we are not unlike herding cats. Caffeinated cats.
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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:20 am

trdsf wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:52 am
It doesn't depend on anything more than observation. Show me half the Republican leadership calling for Steve King's head — or Donald Trump's, for that matter, when he spits out another demonstrably dishonest and/or insulting tweet.
So you see you are deciding that they all shared your view that the tweet was dishonest and/or insulting...
I know some didn't.

So how do you dig into that effectively? I know I like to bat around awful questions.
You keep coming back to this question, even though it hasn't really been part of what I've been discussing — but now that we've cleared away some of the underbrush, sure.

The flat answer is, I don't know.
Thanks. It's definitely one of those awful questions.

For me, I have to be very clearly on the side of racists being allowed to be elected. To hold office. To keep public service jobs.

Not that I like it a lot. Freedom leads to some uncomfortable places.

To me, it depends a lot more on whether we're talking about someone who used to be a racist (explicitly or implicitly) or someone who currently is a racist. I am horrified that the latter are still considered electable in parts of this country, but being a racist isn't illegal. Some racist actions are illegal, or at least bring hate crime provisions into play, but thoughts aren't actions. And I can conceive of the possibility of a politician who held racist beliefs but set them aside (as far as possible) in the execution of their job.
Yeah, I think the racists have to be allowed. In a warm-body democracy anyway.

What I don't like is the rush to judgment. If there's a non-partisan state ethics panel, let them investigate.
yup

Now this depends on your point of view. I would phrase it more along the lines that the Republicans put party above principle in a lockstep, Stepford Wives-y way and apply rules with a clear double standard... and that Democrats can put principle above party, at cost of party unity (I can but reference Will Rogers here -- "I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!").

I will admit that I have more than once wished my Democrats had the discipline of the Republicans, but we are not unlike herding cats. Caffeinated cats.
I was just listening to Sam Harris mentioning this in a JRE podcast. He compared the situation with the left 'having to get away from the circular firing squad'.
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Seabass wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:33 pm
You are a Republican. You are a conservative, right-wing Republican. You are part of sickness that must be cured for the sake of humanity.
Seabass in the quote above makes me ashamed to be associated with the political left.

The pErnivalia antidote = Just ask him a few direct questions, and he will flee with his trademark
pErvinalia wrote:trolololol..

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Re: Yet more problematic stuff

Post by trdsf » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:44 pm

Cunt wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 6:20 am
trdsf wrote:
Fri Feb 08, 2019 4:52 am
It doesn't depend on anything more than observation. Show me half the Republican leadership calling for Steve King's head — or Donald Trump's, for that matter, when he spits out another demonstrably dishonest and/or insulting tweet.
So you see you are deciding that they all shared your view that the tweet was dishonest and/or insulting...
I know some didn't.
View? Whether or not you agree about whether something is insulting, facts are facts are facts.

It is a fact that 69% of Trumps statements are anything from mostly untrue to bald-faced lies, vs. 15% mostly true to (once in a blue moon) actually true.

I'm sorry reality disagrees with you, but all the references are there for you to look up for yourself. You're certainly entitled to your own opinion about the facts, but you are not entitled to your own facts.

You're also evading the question. Where are all the Republicans who want King to resign for current racist statements, as opposed to the ones calling for Northam and Herring's heads over behavior a generation ago? Where is the Republican outrage over Trump's frequent and ongoing lies?
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