Yet more problematic stuff

[Forty Two]

I presume you mean fundamentalist/jihadist Islam...

Yes, in part. By 'Islamicism' I mean anything that advocates and/or agitates for or on behalf of Islam as a political ideology.

And that set pretty well intersects with the fundamentalists. Moderate muslims living in the west accept that the political system they are living under is pluralist and secular.

I agree with the first sentence. Not so sure you have the data to back up the second sentence.

I suspect you are defining "moderate" there in the sense of someone who necessarily accepts that political systems should be pluralist and secular. If that is part of your definition of moderation, then the question becomes "how many Muslims in the west are, in fact, "moderate," when you include that as part of the definition.

And, while many may accept that the political systems ARE pluralist and secular now - I have a strong suspicion that a huge swath of the Muslim populations would be in favor a less pluralist, less secular society, as there percentage of the population goes up. I have no trust that either Christians or Muslims are to be trusted to support separation of church/mosque and state. Not by a longshot. As long as religion is defanged, as it has been in most of the West, the religious groups talk nice. Let their teeth grow back, and they'll growl again.

[Brian Peacock]

I would suggest that Islamicism is also a form of violent right-wing extremism.

I would agree wholeheartedly - theocratic - conservative politically and socially to the point of highly authoritarian -- tinges of racism, sexism, anti-gay - etc -- all aspects of the "far right wing extremism." The reason why it's not characterized as such is the infusion of, into the mainstream thought/zeitgeist, the nonsensical notion that Muslims are an oppressed minority, so they gain the sympathy of "the left" (under Progressive Stack/intersectionalist theory) and the left could not countenance support for that which is "right wing." Ergo, Muslim extremism is not right wing extremism - it's an oppressed group lashing out at the white oppressors.

Your remark is contradicted by my post. You're generalising from the particular again, in circumstances where that particular particular is an anecdote. You imply that Muslims are not, or cannot be, an oppressed or vilified minority within their own communities and/or that pointing out that they can be (and sometimes are) is a kind of disingenuous lefty lie - which is just derp given recent events. I also note that in your eagerness to expound upon the moral and intellectual failings of lefties you completely, not to mention conveniently, ignored the quoted article to which my comment above was, at most, ancillary.

[Brian Peacock]

...
I have a strong suspicion that a huge swath of the Muslim populations would be in favor a less pluralist, less secular society, as there percentage of the population goes up...

I have a strong suspicion that you don't know many Muslims and probably don't have any Muslim friends.

[Cunt]

Islam appears to be a political movement.

They may also have religious beliefs, but that is mostly nonsensical, bullshit stuff (similar to any religion)

Their political clout makes them look a bit like an oppressed minority. Like the Christians, or the Feminists.

[Brian Peacock]

Christianity appears to be a political movement.

They may also have religious beliefs, but that is mostly nonsensical, bullshit stuff (similar to any religion)

Their political clout makes them look a bit like an elite. Like the corporations, or those with inherited unearned income.

[Svartalf]

well, I don't know about corporation, but they definitely are a political power group trying to control their members/worshipers and to hog the political dominance game.

[Cunt]

Yes, if you ignore the fantasy stuff, they can BOTH be addressed as political movements.

If, alternately, you treat one group as if their fantasy deserves a public show of respect, while the other gets to be a laughingstock, that should seem fair to some.

Like the Muslim believers, and those who always leap to defend their beliefs, like a white-knight.

[Svartalf]

I must admit that the muslims are a problem to me, their obsession with making everybody convert and submit to sharia law bothers me, especially when you compare to the early muslim kingdoms in Spain where muslims were only the elite and conversion was actively discouraged, because Jewish and Christian dhimmis paid taxes, while muslims did not.

[Forty Two]

...
I have a strong suspicion that a huge swath of the Muslim populations would be in favor a less pluralist, less secular society, as there percentage of the population goes up...

I have a strong suspicion that you don't know many Muslims and probably don't have any Muslim friends.

You'd be dead wrong about that. But for some reason jumping to such conclusions, rather than asking the person you're making such assumptions about, is par for your course, isn't it?

That said, your and my sets of Muslim friends don't tell us anything about the statistics and polling of Muslims at large. What were you saying about generalizing from the specific to the general?

[Cunt]

lol

[Forty Two]

I must admit that the muslims are a problem to me, their obsession with making everybody convert and submit to sharia law bothers me, especially when you compare to the early muslim kingdoms in Spain where muslims were only the elite and conversion was actively discouraged, because Jewish and Christian dhimmis paid taxes, while muslims did not.

There are small indicators in our culture today. Like when pressure is brought to bear to stop things like, oh, say, advertising bacon. https://www.mynbc5.com/article/advertis ... f#comments

She's probably a "moderate Muslim" but she claims a right to have others stop putting up signs about bacon in her town.

There was an issue, apparently, with halal and non-halal meat in British schools -- https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thefreeth ... ool-meals/

Across Kirklees 43 schools receive halal meat via the authority’s catering service. Seventeen schools with predominantly Muslim children do not offer a non-halal meat alternative.

Schools stop serving pork for religious reasons -- https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/shoppi ... asons.html Odd, why not beef, for religious reasons?

One gets the distinct whiff that wherever Muslim populations are the majority, the issue becomes one of catering to the majority - it's a Muslim community, by the way, so why shouldn't the State and the schools cater to Muslim sensibilities and religious dogmas? However, even where they are a minority, the notion of the "offense" taken by this oppressed and disadvantaged group means their sensibilities and dogma must be catered to, also... they don't always win, of course - but, that does seem to be what large swaths of that religious community push for.

The worried dad set up a Facebook page called “Muslims against Peppa Pig” and posted a video – which has been shared more than 9,000 times – explaining why.

He said: “As Muslims it is very important that we do not eat meat of the pork. We are not allowed to touch the pork. It is completely wrong that our kids are being shown these things on TV and my youngest son wants to be a pig now. He used to want to be a doctor.”

Mr Sheikh has set up an online petition called “Remove Peppa Pig from TV”. He wants to replace it with a “Muslim” cartoon character named Abdullah the Cat.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest ... -Peppa-Pig

[Svartalf]

bugger the muslims, I'll eat pork and drink booze. You'll take my bacon out of my cold, dead stomach.

[Cunt]

bugger the muslims, I'll eat pork and drink booze. You'll take my bacon out of my cold, dead stomach.

Maybe you should get a pet pig.

Not one of those fashionable, tiny and cute pot-bellied pigs. Instead get an 800lb porker, teach it to be a service animal for you, and demand you get to take it along on flights, to cafe's and to your regular visits to pray at every church, mosque and synagogue in the country.

[Brian Peacock]

...
I have a strong suspicion that a huge swath of the Muslim populations would be in favor a less pluralist, less secular society, as there percentage of the population goes up...

I have a strong suspicion that you don't know many Muslims and probably don't have any Muslim friends.

You'd be dead wrong about that. But for some reason jumping to such conclusions, rather than asking the person you're making such assumptions about, is par for your course, isn't it?

That said, your and my sets of Muslim friends don't tell us anything about the statistics and polling of Muslims at large. What were you saying about generalizing from the specific to the general?

Hey, you were the one who said Muslims should be looked on with suspicion.

[Cunt]

Any religious nutters should be viewed with suspicion. Doubly so if they want access to children.