Even more problematic stuff

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Hermit
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Hermit » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:52 pm

Cunt wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:37 pm
You said a lot of words, but you didn't say who is qualified to decide for you.
We are talking about freedom of speech, and the curtailment thereof, right? I told you who can curtail it: Anyone who has the power to decide what you are allowed to hear, read or say. Sure, you can disagree about what is fit to read, but if the government says you are not allowed to read what it says is not fit to read, it is infringing on your right.

Anyway, you're getting lost in irrelevancies. Regardless of what you think, freedom of speech has always been limited to one degree or another, and more importantly, if we had unlimited freedom of speech it can be used to destroy it altogether. It has happened in the past. There is no guarantee that it won't happen again.
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:02 pm

Hermit wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:52 pm
Cunt wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:37 pm
You said a lot of words, but you didn't say who is qualified to decide for you.
We are talking about freedom of speech, and the curtailment thereof, right? I told you who can curtail it: Anyone who has the power to decide what you are allowed to hear, read or say. Sure, you can disagree about what is fit to read, but if the government says you are not allowed to read what it says is not fit to read, it is infringing on your right.

Anyway, you're getting lost in irrelevancies. Regardless of what you think, freedom of speech has always been limited to one degree or another, and more importantly, if we had unlimited freedom of speech it can be used to destroy it altogether. It has happened in the past. There is no guarantee that it won't happen again.
I've been asking who is qualified to decide for you.

I understand your unwillingness to answer. You wandering so far afield in your effort to avoid answering is hilarious.

Go on more about how others curtail the speech of others, and legal nuance. I understand you can't answer comfortably.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:26 pm

Just go down to some southern towns. Talk about freedom of speech there and see how far you will get. Freedom of speech in the USA is an illusion just like so many things in the great American Dream.
"Give me my guns I have to sort something out here". FFS freedom of speech has never has existed in the good ol' US of A.
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:44 pm

Scot Dutchy wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 6:26 pm
Just go down to some southern towns. Talk about freedom of speech there and see how far you will get. Freedom of speech in the USA is an illusion just like so many things in the great American Dream.
"Give me my guns I have to sort something out here". FFS freedom of speech has never has existed in the good ol' US of A.
So I'm guessing that you also can't answer the basic question.

Not surprised that you think your government has a better bead on what you should be allowed, than you do yourself.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Forty Two » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:31 pm

Hermit wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 2:40 pm
Forty Two wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:57 pm
Hermit wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:47 am
Forty Two wrote:
Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:49 pm
If the person speaking about fascism isn't using force, there is zero justification for using any force against him or her.
Your theory fails because fascism has exploited freedom of speech in the past, then suppressed it. And then resistance was futile.
Actually, that isn't how fascism took hold anywhere. Too much freedom of speech never resulted in fascism.
Yes it did. After the miserable failure of the Beer Hall Putsch
which wasn't speech. It was part gunfight.
in 1923 Hitler decided to attain power by other means.
He went to prison, along with a host of other Nazis. Germany outlawed the Nazi Party. So, the remaining Nazis formed the National Socialist Freedom Movement as a way around the outlawing of the Nazi Party, along with the Frontbann (which was the cover name for what really, underground, was the SA). After the ban was lifted, the Nazi Party reformed, stronger for the ban, in 1925.
The NSDAP won control of the parliament of the Weimar Republic through elections.
Actually not. In May, 1924 ,the NSFM I mentioned won 6.5% of the seats in the Reichstag. In December, 1924, they lost seats, down to 3% of the seats. In 1928, the reformed National Socialist German Worker's Party (Nazis) won a whopping 2.6% of the seats in the Reichstag. In 1930, they hit 18.5% and in November, 1932, 33%. In January, 1933, Hindenburg NAMED - APPOINTED - Hitler Chancelor, as a result of negotiations with the German National People's Party and former Chancellor Franz Von Papen.

Hitler became Chancellor in January 1933 within the existing constitutional framework.
Appointed by President Hindenburg, not elected.

Two months later he manipulated parliament to grant him the ability to govern without parliament via the emergency law, and only then was the end of freedom of speech abolished.
That doesn't mean it's freedom of speech which caused the rise of Hitler. Plainly his rise to power was political, not a matter of free speech.

And, when he got into power, he made sure he got Parliament to do what could not happen in the US - simply vote away freedom of speech. Had they had a free speech constitutional provision which Parliament could not vote by majority to curtail, Hitler would not have had the power to do that.

And, note - how many people compare Trump and his cohorts as Nazis and akin to Hitler. They're in the government now. Do you want to vest them with the power to get rid of hate speech and dangerous ideas? Who do you think they would think need to be silenced under that rubric?
In the next elections, held in November 1933, the NSDAP won 661 out of 661 seats. Gleichschaltung followed in 1935. The party flag officially became the German flag, Germany's Jews were stripped of their citizenship and the 1000 year reign of the third German empire commenced.
Hence a very good use of a bill of rights with protection against the majority will and the State's will. A free speech provision. Freedom of assembly provision. An equal protection of the laws provision would have helped out quite a bit.

Further, just look at who the people who think as you're advocating call "Nazis." Christina Hoff Somers is included. Milo Yiannopoulos. Donald Trump. Trump Jr. Jordan Peterson. Anyone who protests against LGBTQ issues. The list goes on and on. Some people say ANTIFA, despite the name, act like Nazis. So, when ANTIFA's opponents get power in a country that will allow such censorship as you suggest, all it takes a vote of Parliament to censor ANTIFA. There is large faction that has beat the drum to have ANTIFA designated by the State as a "domestic terrorist organization."
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:55 pm

When will people start sneering at the Trump Russia Collusion nonsense as the conspiracy theory that it is?

There really isn't any more evidence for it than there was for Roswell or Lizard Overlords.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:24 pm

Cunt wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:11 pm
Who is qualified to decide what you can hear, read or say?
The same people who are qualified to decide what you can hear, read or say now.
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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:31 pm

Another who doesn't understand the question...fucking hilarious.

See, YOU have the right to decide what you can hear, read or say.

I'm asking who you will choose aside from yourself, and you just want to let the government do it. Good! That's the answer the government wants from you.

It's only your personal freedom, nothing you value, so don't worry.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:34 pm

You seem to have trouble with this basic concept. The government/constitution and courts currently decide what you can say. It would remain thus with hate speech laws and the like. What's difficult about this? :think:
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:39 pm

You seem to have trouble with a basic question.

Pretend you are a free person.

Got it? OK.

Now, pretend that you are going to choose someone to stop you from reading or saying things that you should not read or say.

Who is qualified to do that job? To you, I mean.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:41 pm

Cunt wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:39 pm
You seem to have trouble with a basic question.
No I don't. The question was who is qualified to limit speech. Hermit and I explained who is qualified to limit speech. Not sure why you are having trouble with this. :think:
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Cunt » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:44 pm

Maybe this will help...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2uzEM0ugY


I mean, I doubt it, but he is rumoured to be a better speaker than most.

Of course, if you would rather turn over your rights to bureaucrats, that sounds like a good choice for you.
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Joe wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2023 1:22 pm
he doesn't communicate

The 'Walsh Question' 'What Is A Woman?' I'll put an answer here when someone posts one that is clear and comprehensible, by apostates to the Faith.

Update: I've been offered one!
rainbow wrote:
Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:23 pm
It is actually quite easy. A woman has at least one X chromosome.
Strong ideas don't require censorship to survive. Weak ideas cannot survive without it.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:51 pm

I don't respond to argument ad youtubian.

Your rights are already turned over to the government/constitution and the courts. You seem to have been asleep all your life.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by laklak » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:25 am

Nobody is qualified to limit speech, what they are is strong and violent enough to limit speech. The reality is all law, at it's base, is predicated on naked force by the collective against the individual.
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Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Even more problematic stuff

Post by Svartalf » Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:36 am

Cunt wrote:
Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:55 pm
When will people start sneering at the Trump Russia Collusion nonsense as the conspiracy theory that it is?

There really isn't any more evidence for it than there was for Roswell or Lizard Overlords.
when they have better evidence that frump is not actually working for the poutine, and that the sauce fries have no hold on him whatever... he and his team do seem to have had a lot of suspicious doings with the russkies since prior and during the campaign.
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