Psuedoscience and educational institutions

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Hermit
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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Hermit » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:37 am

Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:03 am
I'm wondering if there was any academic model for confronting bad ideas in the classroom. I mean, there SHOULD be.
Sure, but doesn't that conflict with freedom of speech? I thought almost everyone outside libtard snowflakes and cucks, and especially right wing nut cases in particular were all in favour of it. Or is it a case of "up to a point"?

Honest question. I am genuinely torn on the issue. I've thought about holocaust denialism, for instance. Now, there is a bad idea. No doubt about it. Not in my mind anyway. But then the question arises: Who decides what is a bad idea and what is not? Should we have something like the "Scientific Methods and Ideas Approval Authority"? Would it have spent almost half a century telling Alfred Wegner to fuck and take his plate tectonics to some joint that doesn't mind doing evidence-exempt pseudoscience?

It's a conundrum I have no answer for either way.

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Sean Hayden » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:39 am

Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:34 am
You program...do you run?
Only if I'm being chased.
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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Cunt » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:47 am

Hermit wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:37 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:03 am
I'm wondering if there was any academic model for confronting bad ideas in the classroom. I mean, there SHOULD be.
Sure, but doesn't that conflict with freedom of speech? I thought almost everyone outside libtard snowflakes and cucks, and especially right wing nut cases in particular were all in favour of it. Or is it a case of "up to a point"?

Honest question. I am genuinely torn on the issue. I've thought about holocaust denialism, for instance. Now, there is a bad idea. No doubt about it. Not in my mind anyway. But then the question arises: Who decides what is a bad idea and what is not? Should we have something like the "Scientific Methods and Ideas Approval Authority"? Would it have spent almost half a century telling Alfred Wegner to fuck and take his plate tectonics to some joint that doesn't mind doing evidence-exempt pseudoscience?

It's a conundrum I have no answer for either way.
I don't see how it does. If a school wants to call themselves a temple, and disallow critical review, I think they should be able to. I guess I'm wishing the academic world was a bit more sacred.

Scientific methods and ideas approval authority sounds good, but they aren't any better equipped. I contacted the Fellowship of Pretentious fuckers, or whatever the Canadian doctoring-authority is, and even they admit a difficult time making it clear who is and isn't a doctor, and who IS a doctor, but is peddling bullshit.

As to holocaust denialism, there was a man jailed in Austria for that. Hitchins talked about him in a video, saying that the man, who was jailed because he MIGHT say something - not because he did - had shared information which was valuable to Mr. Hitchins. I didn't look into it further, because when you start listening to the anti-Jew group, it quickly devolves into noise I can't make any sense of. I don't know what important thing Hitchins thought the guy wrote, but it does strike me as significant that Hitchins, who seemed to love Jews just like people, made a point of using him as example.

Canada started busting people for hate speech with a real Nazi. The guy was spreading that hate in thick layers, with ever-improving electronic communication. I'm still not sure it was worth much, as far as reducing hate in our world. I do know that kind of power in hands of government doesn't set me at ease.

As to Wegner, my astrologer told me that geology wasn't a real science anyway.
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Seabass wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:33 pm
You are a Republican. You are a conservative, right-wing Republican. You are part of sickness that must be cured for the sake of humanity.
Seabass in the quote above makes me ashamed to be associated with the political left.

The pErnivalia antidote = Just ask him a few direct questions, and he will flee with his trademark
pErvinalia wrote:trolololol..

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Cunt » Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:50 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:39 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:34 am
You program...do you run?
Only if I'm being chased.
Darn shame. I have a job for a programmer, but only if they can accept pay in runs.

You might want to check out a chick-fight which interested me lately. Gwynyth Paltrow vs Dr. Guntner.

Great stuff.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
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Seabass wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:33 pm
You are a Republican. You are a conservative, right-wing Republican. You are part of sickness that must be cured for the sake of humanity.
Seabass in the quote above makes me ashamed to be associated with the political left.

The pErnivalia antidote = Just ask him a few direct questions, and he will flee with his trademark
pErvinalia wrote:trolololol..

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Hermit » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:03 am

Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:47 am
Scientific methods and ideas approval authority sounds good, but they aren't any better equipped.
So, what makes one sound good?

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:03 am

Sean Hayden wrote:
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:34 am
You program...do you run?
Only if I'm being chased.
Image
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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:21 am

Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:50 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:39 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:34 am
You program...do you run?
Only if I'm being chased.
Darn shame. I have a job for a programmer, but only if they can accept pay in runs.

You might want to check out a chick-fight which interested me lately. Gwynyth Paltrow vs Dr. Guntner.

Great stuff.
You not going to find a programmer who you'll pay in their own used calories. Try offering chocolate or doughnuts instead.
.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Cunt » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:18 pm

Hermit wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:03 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:47 am
Scientific methods and ideas approval authority sounds good, but they aren't any better equipped.
So, what makes one sound good?
http://www.royalcollege.ca/rcsite/home-e

The fact that there are fellow professionals attempting to keep the field coherent.

Same reason it sounds bad, when you consider a 'college of reiki healers', or 'British Chiropractic Association'.
Brian Peacock wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 10:21 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:50 am
Sean Hayden wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:39 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:34 am
You program...do you run?
Only if I'm being chased.
Darn shame. I have a job for a programmer, but only if they can accept pay in runs.

You might want to check out a chick-fight which interested me lately. Gwynyth Paltrow vs Dr. Guntner.

Great stuff.
You not going to find a programmer who you'll pay in their own used calories. Try offering chocolate or doughnuts instead.
Same problem with paying them in any form - it's too expensive.

Not that I would lower their prices, I just can't pay them, so would need to find a volunteer.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
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Seabass wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:33 pm
You are a Republican. You are a conservative, right-wing Republican. You are part of sickness that must be cured for the sake of humanity.
Seabass in the quote above makes me ashamed to be associated with the political left.

The pErnivalia antidote = Just ask him a few direct questions, and he will flee with his trademark
pErvinalia wrote:trolololol..

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Hermit
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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Hermit » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:27 pm

Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:18 pm
Hermit wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:03 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:47 am
Scientific methods and ideas approval authority sounds good, but they aren't any better equipped.
So, what makes one sound good?
http://www.royalcollege.ca/rcsite/home-e

The fact that there are fellow professionals attempting to keep the field coherent.
The circularity of your argument is noted, though I am fairly certain you can't see it.

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Cunt » Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:54 pm

Hermit wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:27 pm
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:18 pm
Hermit wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:03 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:47 am
Scientific methods and ideas approval authority sounds good, but they aren't any better equipped.
So, what makes one sound good?
http://www.royalcollege.ca/rcsite/home-e

The fact that there are fellow professionals attempting to keep the field coherent.
The circularity of your argument is noted, though I am fairly certain you can't see it.
As I pointed out, the reasons it is good are right there with the reasons it is bad.

I use 'Health Canada' to sort out a lot of the health questions for me, since I haven't time to keep up with the research. That doesn't mean I take everything they say as gospel.

Have you got a stronger method? Or were you just trying to make me look like I took a side I didn't?
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists
Seabass wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:33 pm
You are a Republican. You are a conservative, right-wing Republican. You are part of sickness that must be cured for the sake of humanity.
Seabass in the quote above makes me ashamed to be associated with the political left.

The pErnivalia antidote = Just ask him a few direct questions, and he will flee with his trademark
pErvinalia wrote:trolololol..

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by laklak » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:29 pm

If my programs run I ship the release. Actually, I do that if they compile clean. Users are the best QA.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Hermit » Sat Oct 13, 2018 2:32 pm

Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:54 pm
Hermit wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:27 pm
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 1:18 pm
Hermit wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 5:03 am
Cunt wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 4:47 am
Scientific methods and ideas approval authority sounds good, but they aren't any better equipped.
So, what makes one sound good?
http://www.royalcollege.ca/rcsite/home-e

The fact that there are fellow professionals attempting to keep the field coherent.
The circularity of your argument is noted, though I am fairly certain you can't see it.
As I pointed out, the reasons it is good are right there with the reasons it is bad.

I use 'Health Canada' to sort out a lot of the health questions for me, since I haven't time to keep up with the research. That doesn't mean I take everything they say as gospel.

Have you got a stronger method? Or were you just trying to make me look like I took a side I didn't?
You keep missing the point: Setting up any type of authority policing what is and what is not admissible in the academic world conflicts with freedom of speech. As I said before, it's a conundrum I do not have an answer for, but if it makes you happy to have found the solution to it in the form of the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada, don't let me rouse you from your delusion. A contented presenter of youtubers is a quiet presenter of youtubers, especially one who stubbornly ignores inconvenient Youtube clips.

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Cunt » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:19 pm

I said quite clearly that I was feeling both ways about it. I like it. I don't like it.

I don't know how I could be more clear about my ambivalence.

How about the particular example of 'dry needling'. It is new to me, possibly bunkum, possibly valid. How can we tell the difference?

It is very confusing because many will forward all KINDS of evidence which seems to support chiropractic. If I hadn't looked into their origins, mechanism, and finally response to criticism, I might still think it was full of good stuff.

As to the authority, there are currently some in universities. Rick Mehta ran afoul of them here in Canada. There are efforts underway to identify and call out political bias in classes, so that those students who don't want to learn to respect marxism (for example) could avoid classes which have professors who are promoting it.

Curiously, I think librivox kind of got near something useful, in their refusal to rate the quality of submissions on their site.

See, by refusing to have a rating system (for the volunteer readers of their audiobooks) they protect shitty readers from having to weather harsh criticism. It might not sound good, but there can be (ARE!) lots of ratings available off-site, and that is where they belong.

If someone is a terrible reader it will be known, but having that off-site means that readers can focus on doing what they want, and the market will decide what value it has.

Still shitty in ways, but it is a similar protection.
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
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Seabass wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:33 pm
You are a Republican. You are a conservative, right-wing Republican. You are part of sickness that must be cured for the sake of humanity.
Seabass in the quote above makes me ashamed to be associated with the political left.

The pErnivalia antidote = Just ask him a few direct questions, and he will flee with his trademark
pErvinalia wrote:trolololol..

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Brian Peacock » Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:36 pm

I went to a chiropractor about a very long running issue with my back some years ago. He folded me up like a fancy French pastry and jumped about on me to make the bones in my hips, back and neck crack before suggesting I needed a course of 12 treatments. I couldn't walk for a week after that and didn't go back.

Some time later I went to an osteopath with the same complaint which was, by that time, causing me a lot of gip. He took a thorough medical history, watched me walk, sit, stand, squat, and pick up a set of dumbbells from the floor and off the table, then he massaged various bits of me before stretching my tendons. Then he folded me up like a fancy French pastry and massaged me some more before making the bones of my neck, shoulders and sternum crack. I was sent off with several sheets of exercises and the offer to make another appointment if I thought I needed one. I went home and slept for 12 hours, but when I woke up I had full range of movement even though I was a bit stiff and sore. I've done the exercises on and off ever since - and since I followed his advice to sleep on the floor, which I have for about 8 years now I think about it, I've had no major issue with my back.

Take from that what you will. :coffee:
.

"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."

Frank Zappa

"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
.

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Re: Psuedoscience and educational institutions

Post by Cunt » Sun Oct 14, 2018 8:24 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:36 pm
I went to a chiropractor about a very long running issue with my back some years ago. He folded me up like a fancy French pastry and jumped about on me to make the bones in my hips, back and neck crack before suggesting I needed a course of 12 treatments. I couldn't walk for a week after that and didn't go back.

Some time later I went to an osteopath with the same complaint which was, by that time, causing me a lot of gip. He took a thorough medical history, watched me walk, sit, stand, squat, and pick up a set of dumbbells from the floor and off the table, then he massaged various bits of me before stretching my tendons. Then he folded me up like a fancy French pastry and massaged me some more before making the bones of my neck, shoulders and sternum crack. I was sent off with several sheets of exercises and the offer to make another appointment if I thought I needed one. I went home and slept for 12 hours, but when I woke up I had full range of movement even though I was a bit stiff and sore. I've done the exercises on and off ever since - and since I followed his advice to sleep on the floor, which I have for about 8 years now I think about it, I've had no major issue with my back.

Take from that what you will. :coffee:
Fucking useless, evidence-wise.

Funny though, the same story I hear again and again - Some manipulation plus rest and plain exercise.

Many runners get referred to physio. I am not a physiotherapist, but I DO want to avoid engaging them professionally. They are fucking expensive.

In order to reduce their waste-work, it has been my intent to develop leg exercises such that, when referred to physio, they would assess my leg strength, and have no exercises left to recommend. This would leave them free to ply their skills on the more advanced problems.

So I did various leg exercises, finally arranging them all in a sort of dance where I put on my shoes.
It's like this (at the moment) standing on one leg,
extend my right leg behind me, reach down to the floor to pick up a sock, using both hands,
brush off my foot,
put on the sock,
zip the leg of my tights shut,
extend the foot ahead,
squat down to pick up my right shoe (touching the other shoe with my left hand)
rise, untie it, put it on, tie it, then put the foot down.

So being a couple hundred pounds, doing this every day once or twice is a real easy, but thorough working of each leg, yielding various strength and flexibility 'tests' as well.

I guess if I eliminate the weak muscles they generally identify as potential causes of problems, it can optimize our time for things I can't do myself.

Oh, and the shoe thing is getting funnier and funnier in public. I kind of wish I looked older. :)
Shit, Piss, Cock, Cunt, Motherfucker, Cocksucker and Tits.
-various artists
Seabass wrote:
Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:33 pm
You are a Republican. You are a conservative, right-wing Republican. You are part of sickness that must be cured for the sake of humanity.
Seabass in the quote above makes me ashamed to be associated with the political left.

The pErnivalia antidote = Just ask him a few direct questions, and he will flee with his trademark
pErvinalia wrote:trolololol..

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