Psuedoscience and educational institutions

[Cunt]

Recently, I looked into a program to learn something, and discovered that large swaths of the course material were psuedoscience.

I asked the school, sloppily, what a critic of psuedoscience could do in response to finding it in a course they were taking, and they refered me to their 'respect for others' policies vaguely.

Then I asked more clearly 'does your school require respect to be paid to psuedoscience ideas?'

The response was

MacEwan University prides itself on diversity, inclusion, and tolerance, and ALL ideas and perspectives are to be treated equally and with respect.

Their response goes on, but I wanted to jam in here that this seems to signal that they are about to raise a shield to criticism of an idea.

It becomes abundantly clear that their equal treatment will not extend to criticism of psuedoscience.

Students, faculty, and staff are expected to adhere to the “respectful workplace” policy in all interactions. Following is a quote from this policy: “In practice, MacEwan’s efforts are grounded in an institution-wide commitment to excellence, understanding that the pursuit of excellence is advanced and sustained by a culture that is free from discrimination and harassment.” There are consequences and disciplinary actions in place for individuals who do not respect this policy.



In addition, the Massage Therapy program at MacEwan shares space and resources with the Acupuncture program.



If this is not a comfortable fit for you, I suggest you look at alternate Massage Therapy programs

It's funny how the author knew a ready example of psuedoscience, and provided it.

I haven't been in school for decades, and not past grade 9 even then. What do people do when they are stuck in a class, and forced to agree with some bullshit idea? Do they lower their standards? Ignore the conflict? File quiet and reasonable complaints to the school, expecting action?

Or sleep with their instructors, get a fake A and forget the horror for the rest of their life? Seriously, some of you with education MUST have encountered this. What the fuck did you DO?

[Sean Hayden]

I haven't. But then I have a degree in IT and I'm going for biology now so there's not a lot of room for pseudoscience. I also made sure to take more science oriented electives. I guess the point is that right now at least, you have to want to learn junk --maybe through ignorance-- to get it.

As an aside..true in 2001 anyway...UT Austin offered a course, first of its kind, on combating psuedoscience. These days it seems everyone and their dog is a skeptic.

[Rum]

I'd call it out. I wish I had in the late 1970s when Freud was taught as 'science' in my social work course. Sadly I didn't know better at the time. I would challenge it now.

[Sean Hayden]

My encounters with him have always started with something akin to a disclaimer about his failures. But apparently he is still considered very important and not just as a historical figure. I think his ideas have quite a few followers these days don't they?

In thinking about this more I guess history is a good place to find a lot of room for debate, and in my experience plenty of students are willing to do it. I disagree openly when I have a problem with something. I was just proven wrong by my bio professor last week when I said I wouldn't believe something she said without evidence. Politics is also another obvious choice. But none of these is pseudoscience.

hmmmm... it really does seem like you have to seek that shit out these days eh?

[Brian Peacock]

All ideas are not equal even if the people forwarding those ideas are. So while people should be respected their ideas, particularly ideas that encapsulate objective claims about the world, exist to be tested by sceptical challenge. Notwithstanding the fact that we may be mistaken about the status of scientific and pseudo-scientific claims - if somebody has a bad idea there's nothing to be gained by indulging them on the grounds of respect. Be charitable certainly, but tell them why their idea is bad and make that the basis for discourse rather than falling into an unproductive discussion about why criticism of an idea is/isn't disrespectful.

[pErvinalia]

I suspect the "respect" thing was probably more to do with Cunt's disrespectful delivery. And why would anyone be surprised by that? We've all seen how disrespectful he is to everyone here.

[laklak]

If passing the course is a prerequisite to getting a degree that you want for some reason or another then you suck it up. You can't fight city hall. If you're taking it for your own amusement and you find you are not amused, tell them to fuck off.

[Hermit]

Recently, I looked into a program to learn something, and discovered that large swaths of the course material were psuedoscience.

I asked the school, sloppily, what a critic of psuedoscience could do in response to finding it in a course they were taking, and they refered me to their 'respect for others' policies vaguely.

Then I asked more clearly 'does your school require respect to be paid to psuedoscience ideas?'

The response was

MacEwan University prides itself on diversity, inclusion, and tolerance, and ALL ideas and perspectives are to be treated equally and with respect.

Their response goes on, but I wanted to jam in here that this seems to signal that they are about to raise a shield to criticism of an idea.

It becomes abundantly clear that their equal treatment will not extend to criticism of psuedoscience.

Students, faculty, and staff are expected to adhere to the “respectful workplace” policy in all interactions. Following is a quote from this policy: “In practice, MacEwan’s efforts are grounded in an institution-wide commitment to excellence, understanding that the pursuit of excellence is advanced and sustained by a culture that is free from discrimination and harassment.” There are consequences and disciplinary actions in place for individuals who do not respect this policy.

Challenge them to put their money where their mouths are by demanding they offer courses on geocentrism, expanding earthism creationism and so on. If they reply that these topics are already included in existing courses, just ask why they cannot just likewise include shiatsu, reflexology and whatever in already existing courses.

[pErvinalia]

[Cunt]

Challenge them to put their money where their mouths are by demanding they offer courses on geocentrism, expanding earthism creationism and so on. If they reply that these topics are already included in existing courses, just ask why they cannot just likewise include shiatsu, reflexology and whatever in already existing courses.

Maybe I should insist they perform tantric trainings, where you never quite finish, get a degree...you just keep edging up to it...

You have their institution name if you care to follow up, so don't think I think this is a bad idea.

For me, however, it isn't worth the time. If I valued them somehow, I would value an effort to improve them. The best I could hope for from this effort was that I still don't give a fuck.

[Cunt]

I haven't. But then I have a degree in IT and I'm going for biology now so there's not a lot of room for pseudoscience. I also made sure to take more science oriented electives. I guess the point is that right now at least, you have to want to learn junk --maybe through ignorance-- to get it.

As an aside..true in 2001 anyway...UT Austin offered a course, first of its kind, on combating psuedoscience. These days it seems everyone and their dog is a skeptic.

I'm trying to be, but I'm better at other things.

I had advice about fixing a knee issue. It was to do 'dry needling'. I briefly looked, it looked like acupuncture with a new name. Skeptics have suggested I might be wrong to have jumped to conclusions, but how to tell?

I mean, without risking my own, biased knee...

I'd call it out. I wish I had in the late 1970s when Freud was taught as 'science' in my social work course. Sadly I didn't know better at the time. I would challenge it now.

I wish I could say it.

(not about Freud, don't know)

I would challenge it now, but as I stand ready to register, they show me a policy about respecting other ideas, announce they have acupuncture in their 'university' and will that be cash or charge?

So I say it by not registering.

But I'm wondering if there was any academic model for confronting bad ideas in the classroom. I mean, there SHOULD be. This was a very clear example, which I detected before committing any money. There are surely other subtle examples.

If passing the course is a prerequisite to getting a degree that you want for some reason or another then you suck it up. You can't fight city hall. If you're taking it for your own amusement and you find you are not amused, tell them to fuck off.

I have to exclude large blocks of the academic world like this. Tell a lot of people to fuck off, too.

[Sean Hayden]

You could always just ask how it works. Isn't that going to tell you a lot about what you're getting yourself into? If your knee is messed up, how is it messed up --exactly-- and how exactly is this treatment supposed to help? Does it even sound plausible? A doctor should be able to give you a good explanation of the treatment plan, outcomes, and risks. I guess in that case you'll be relying a lot on what you know to decide if it's plausible or not. But you should understand enough about how your body works to know when you're hearing complete nonsense. If not then take a health class first right?

[Cunt]

You could always just ask how it works. Isn't that going to tell you a lot about what you're getting yourself into? If your knee is messed up, how is it messed up --exactly-- and how exactly is this treatment supposed to help? Does it even sound plausible? A doctor should be able to give you a good explanation of the treatment plan, outcomes, and risks. I guess in that case you'll be relying a lot on what you know to decide if it's plausible or not. But you should understand enough about how your body works to know when you're hearing complete nonsense. If not then take a health class first right?

When I rejected it, it was (unfairly) because it didn't come with any of that.

My coach is a world-class runner, who I think is smart, but don't know how much. She mentioned that it worked for her on a similar issue, and suggested asking my doc about it. (my doc is good, but not a sports medicine specialist)

Later, a more medical source made me think I should reconsider my opinion of it as treatment (though it hasn't yet been recommended)

It's not my knee. I ran 20km+ today, will do another 14 or 17 in the morning, then another 5k in the evening. Lets just say it isn't critical.

It does, however, give an example of something which may be science, or may be bullshit.

As to classes, I am just at the beginning stages to start reading about it again.

[Sean Hayden]

Cool. There are a lot of free courses on the Internet where you can learn as much or even more than in many paid environments. I'm constantly taking or attempting courses of some kind even while in school. eg I'm currently in a free Pharo programming course. There's just so much good stuff out there.

[Cunt]

You program...do you run?