Gender Pronouns

Pogue
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Gender Pronouns

Post by Pogue » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:30 pm

Have you ever been writing an essay and wanted to refer to a person, and you write 'him/her', 'him or her' or 'one' or something along those lines? I was always searching for a pronoun to use which basically represented a person regardless of sex. If I was talking to someone and had to choose a pronoun, a generic pronoun representing a person of any sex would make things a lot easier. It would be difficult for everybody to learn 30 or so pronouns representing every transgender person.

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Rum
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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by Rum » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:03 pm

'They' seems to be the emerging favourite.

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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by Pogue » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:05 pm

They is plural

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Scot Dutchy
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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:23 pm

"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by Pogue » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:04 pm

this is all very complicated.

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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:09 pm

Well it would bound to be.

That last row I have seen used already. Ze is also Dutch and is used often so is hir. They seem to be acceptable.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Sean Hayden
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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by Sean Hayden » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:26 pm

I can't remember having this problem. :dunno:
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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by Seabass » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:39 pm

My gender pronoun is "Grand Vizier".
Hey, Torquemada, whaddaya say?
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L'Emmerdeur
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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by L'Emmerdeur » Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:49 pm

Pogue wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:05 pm
They is plural
This topic has already been discussed on this site, and if you'd like I can link to the thread. For now, I'll provide some sources I cited in that thread for you to consider.

First, a look at the history of the singular "their/they." As you will find, it is and has been a legitimate part of the English language for centuries. It was only when a particular school of grammarians in the 18th century decided to try to enforce their artificial notion that English grammar should conform to Latin grammar that it went out of favor with some people. It has never been completely suppressed however.

'A brief history of singular "their" (etc.)'
However, not long afterwards the "singular their" construction ("Everybody loves their own mother") also came into existence, and is attested starting in the late 1300's. So from the fourteenth century on, both "singular their" and the pronominal generic masculine existed in English, and were two competing solutions for the same problem.

From then on, "singular their" was used without much inhibition (see the examples from the OED) and was not generally considered "bad grammar". It is true that starting in the 16th century, when English grammar began to be a subject of study, some rules of Latin grammar were applied to English; and that the Latin-based rules of grammatical agreement might have been seen as forbidding the English singular "their" construction -- if they were interpreted in a certain linguistically naïve way. (This may explain why certain classical-language-influenced authors, such as the translators of the King James Bible, tended to use singular "their" somewhat infrequently -- but see Phillipians 2:3.) However, the earliest specific condemnation of singular "their" that Bodine was able to find (in her 1975 article) dated only from 1795 (more than two centuries after English grammar started being taught, and at least several decades after the beginning of the 18th century "grammar boom").
Next, a linguist gives a detailed analysis with historical examples defending the use of the singular "they."

'Singular “they” and the many reasons why it’s correct'
I’ve wanted for some time to have one place to send everyone who complains about singular they, a single page that can debunk whatever junk they’re peddling against it. There’s been lots of great stuff written about why singular they is acceptable, but every time I want to smash the arguments against it, I have to waste time jumping through old Language Log posts and books and whatnot, so I figured I’d finally go about summarizing it all. Without further ado, here’s the evidence for singular they, and why you ought to stop “correcting” it.
Lastly for now, an article from the American Dialect Society on their 2015 Word of the Year:

2015 Word of the Year is singular “they”'
The use of singular they builds on centuries of usage, appearing in the work of writers such as Chaucer, Shakespeare, and Jane Austen. In 2015, singular they was embraced by the Washington Post style guide. Bill Walsh, copy editor for the Post, described it as “the only sensible solution to English’s lack of a gender-neutral third-person singular personal pronoun.”

While editors have increasingly moved to accepting singular they when used in a generic fashion, voters in the Word of the Year proceedings singled out its newer usage as an identifier for someone who may identify as “non-binary” in gender terms.

“In the past year, new expressions of gender identity have generated a deal of discussion, and singular they has become a particularly significant element of that conversation,” Zimmer said. “While many novel gender-neutral pronouns have been proposed, they has the advantage of already being part of the language.”
There are those here who disagree with the above, but I'll let them make their own cases, if they wish.

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laklak
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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by laklak » Sun Aug 12, 2018 5:51 pm

I find "that cunt" or "this asshole" works fine.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Rum
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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by Rum » Sun Aug 12, 2018 6:32 pm

Pogue wrote:
Sun Aug 12, 2018 3:05 pm
They is plural
Perhaps so but it is emerging as the trendy gender free pronoun of choice for individuals.

'Gay' had a different meaning not so long ago too - and look at it now!

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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by JimC » Sun Aug 12, 2018 10:45 pm

I used to live with gay abandon, but now... :sigh:
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laklak
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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by laklak » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:10 am

...you live with fabulous abandon.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by JimC » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:39 am

I do indeed, ducky...
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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Re: Gender Pronouns

Post by Brian Peacock » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:43 am

I rely on Sir for the gents, Madam for the ladies, and Sadam for the rest. :tea:
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