Reparations for slavery

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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Cunt » Mon Mar 05, 2018 5:16 pm

pErvinalia wrote:Sean has made a case. But you didn't read the thread.
He didn't make a good enough case to convince me, so I guess I'll keep my privilege-bucks.
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:28 am

Forty Two wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Who is being racially discriminated against here?
If a benefit is paid only to people based on their supposed membership in a racial group, then it's a racist policy. Those who don't receive the benefit are being discriminated against based on race.
'Everyone except blacks' isn't a race.
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by laklak » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:24 am

I just checked my privilege. It's fine.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:00 am

Mine's lying around the trailer trash somewhere...
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Forty Two » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:15 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Who is being racially discriminated against here?
If a benefit is paid only to people based on their supposed membership in a racial group, then it's a racist policy. Those who don't receive the benefit are being discriminated against based on race.
'Everyone except blacks' isn't a race.
Blacks are a race, so affording them a benefit denied everyone else based on their race is racist.
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Brian Peacock » Tue Mar 06, 2018 1:27 pm

Even if that 'benefit' benefits society?
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by rainbow » Tue Mar 06, 2018 2:06 pm

Forty Two wrote:
pErvinalia wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
Brian Peacock wrote:Who is being racially discriminated against here?
If a benefit is paid only to people based on their supposed membership in a racial group, then it's a racist policy. Those who don't receive the benefit are being discriminated against based on race.
'Everyone except blacks' isn't a race.
Blacks are a race, so affording them a benefit denied everyone else based on their race is racist.
Crap. "Race" was invented by the imperialists to subjugate indigenous people.
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Forty Two » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:16 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:Even if that 'benefit' benefits society?
Sure. Some people thought segregation benefited society. Whether something is a benefit depends on one's goals and viewpoint as to what is good or bad for society. Even if a racist policy were to to be a benefit to society under some people's conception of what is good for society, that doesn't make the policy not racist.
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Cunt » Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:51 pm

Forty Two wrote:Even if a racist policy were to to be a benefit to society under some people's conception of what is good for society, that doesn't make the policy not racist.
I have supported racist policies, but calling them racist policies does tend to make everyone itch.

There is a policy in my area, where if you are a certain race (indigenous/various) you get special treatment in the government hiring process.

They dance around calling it 'race', but it's still the point of the policy.

I don't disagree with it, except for the fact that they go so far to claim that it isn't.

I think racist policies are needed in some cases. Another example is tissue donation. The blood folks have a new initiative where they are looking for something else (stem cells? Bone marrow? I forget) but it needs to be a close genetic match. Because of this, they lack donor material for several remote northern indigenous groups. There is simply no other source available for this material, and failing to pursue donors means more (with similar genetics) will suffer.

Back to reparations...should those small indigenous groups, once saved from these health problems by hard-won donor tissue, be forced to repay the costs of soliciting, collecting and storing those donor materials? Or are we just all in this together?
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Sean Hayden » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:17 pm

Strong opposition to slavery reparations is reflected in the general population. In a study conducted by YouGov in 2014 found that, although 55% of Americans believe Germans should provide cash payments to Jewish survivors of the Holocaust, only 37% of Americans believed that slaves should have been provided compensation in the form of cash after being freed.
One of the more interesting bits from the wikipedia article on reparations for slavery.

as most whites say that slavery's impact today is non-existent

Maybe we are approaching this the wrong way. Maybe whites need more help?
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Cunt » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:46 pm

The US has been accused of enslaving Africans, but that isn't relevant here in Canada.

We (if I understand history correctly) enslaved the Chinese. Unless I miss my guess, we tore them to shreds making the railroad. Hard, dangerous work so we wouldn't have been able to do it without slaves.

So do we owe the Chinese reparations?
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Hermit wrote:
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Trump supporters are fundamentally racist.

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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Sean Hayden » Tue Mar 06, 2018 4:55 pm

Why don't you look at what we're actually talking about here.
The lives of black Americans are better than they were half a century ago. The humiliation of whites only signs are gone. Rates of black poverty have decreased. Black teen-pregnancy rates are at record lows—and the gap between black and white teen-pregnancy rates has shrunk significantly. But such progress rests on a shaky foundation, and fault lines are everywhere. The income gap between black and white households is roughly the same today as it was in 1970. Patrick Sharkey, a sociologist at New York University, studied children born from 1955 through 1970 and found that 4 percent of whites and 62 percent of blacks across America had been raised in poor neighborhoods. A generation later, the same study showed, virtually nothing had changed. And whereas whites born into affluent neighborhoods tended to remain in affluent neighborhoods, blacks tended to fall out of them.

This is not surprising. Black families, regardless of income, are significantly less wealthy than white families. The Pew Research Center estimates that white households are worth roughly 20 times as much as black households, and that whereas only 15 percent of whites have zero or negative wealth, more than a third of blacks do. Effectively, the black family in America is working without a safety net. When financial calamity strikes—a medical emergency, divorce, job loss—the fall is precipitous.

And just as black families of all incomes remain handicapped by a lack of wealth, so too do they remain handicapped by their restricted choice of neighborhood.
More can be found here: The Case for Reparations
Two hundred fifty years of slavery. Ninety years of Jim Crow. Sixty years of separate but equal. Thirty-five years of racist housing policy. Until we reckon with our compounding moral debts, America will never be whole.
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Svartalf » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:03 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:Reparations for slavery are not punishment. You would not be punished. You are being asked to address and correct the effects of racism directed at African Americans in the US.

Just check out the recommendations from the link I provided earlier. Where do you see yourself being punished in all of that?
actually, asking the descendents of the white folks to pay reparations for misdeeds (slavery) that their own ancestors may or may not have had anything to do with, IS punishing them for stuff they have no direct connection with
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Sean Hayden » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:06 pm

I've already dealt with that complaint. I don't have anything more to add to it. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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Re: Reparations for slavery

Post by Cunt » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:06 pm

All fairly true for the Chinese railway workers, too.

I'm just trying to wrap my head around it. Both groups were slaves, both experienced systemic racism. Maybe not to the same degree, but if one deserves reparations, so does the other.

I'm not sold on the idea because I never did get myself a race, so can't fairly picture myself on either side of this issue.

Should all the conquered get reparations? Our allied forces destroyed Germany, and racism against Germans was a thing.

I guess it seems best to me to make everyone admit to being bastards, and move forward without racism directing policy. (but that is some left-over muddy leftist thinking I might want to reexamine)

Here is a question you might respect more...

If someone is a mix of slave owner and slave, do they pay reparations? To who?
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I don't want to forget this enlightening quote by our prestigious and sage member...
Hermit wrote:
Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:41 am
Trump supporters are fundamentally racist.

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