Reparations for slavery

[Sean Hayden]

So we're back to being punished. You're not being asked to take responsibility for slavery. You're not being accused of being a slaver. You're being asked to take responsibility for the situation today, which is a result of slavery and the racism that has lasted till today. It is not your fault America is a racist country. But if you don't want it to be, then it is your responsibility to change it.

[Forty Two]

So we're back to being punished. You're not being asked to take responsibility for slavery. You're not being accused of being a slaver. You're being asked to take responsibility for the situation today, which is a result of slavery and the racism that has lasted till today. It is not your fault America is a racist country. But if you don't want it to be, then it is your responsibility to change it.

You're missing my point. If the point is to take responsibility for the situation today, then the result is not merely because of slavery and the racism of slavery, and not all racism is a result of or connected to slavery. The inequality and "worseness" of society today is not just based on slavery.

So, if the only thing you're paying reparations for is the part of the inequality and worseness of our situation today that is directly attributable to slavery, and the only people that have to pay it are "White" people, then it is holding them responsible for the wrongs of their forefathers.

If you were, in fact, looking to address inequalities and the ways in which society could be made better, then everyone would contribute, and the beneficiaries would be more than just black people.

Oh, also, the idea that America is a "racist country" is one that I take issue with. It's not a racist country. It's a country, like all others, which has some racists in it, but it is not a racist country.

[Sean Hayden]

The inequality of African Americans in our society today is a result of slavery and the racism that remained codified in law till the 60s and has persisted in practice till now. That Reparations for slavery may help others and create a more egalitarian society in general was merely pointed out in an attempt to deal with your chucking of so much herring, for example what about the Irish, Chinese, Japanese, British etc. It should not be taken as an attempt by me to diminish the role slavery and racism have played in the inequality of African Americans today.

My understanding is that our government has refused to implement the measures recommended in the link I posted earlier. Therefore I've never assumed it was just "whites" who would be paying for anything, something I said just a few posts ago.

[Seabass]

Revo can't pay reparations.

In other words, help should be given based on socioeconomic factors rather than skin color.

--six of one and half a dozen of the other

The stats posted in the link I provided earlier are quite illuminating.

So I read the pdf. Included under the rubric of "reparations" are all sorts of measures that I think most people don't associate with said word. I've always thought of reparations as giving a one time compensation to African Americans and calling it a day. But if we're talking about measures like taking active steps to reduce racism in police departments, then of course I support that.

So I guess my revised answer to the question "do you support reparations" is "it depends on what you mean by 'reparations'". There are some measures I'd support, and others I wouldn't.

[Forty Two]

Therefore I've never assumed it was just "whites" who would be paying for anything, something I said just a few posts ago.

Well, it would be rather incongruous for African Americans to pay for their own reparations. Recall, also, that if it is reparations that we're talking about, a reparation is by definition a making of amends for a wrong that was done.

Anyway, I get your rationale for there to be a redistribution of financial resources. However, as I said, basing that on race seems rather contrary to equal protection of the laws. Basing it on need might not be.

[Sean Hayden]

Yep, and you can bet that would be a Fox News headline. But it's rather misleading. That level of control over spending simply doesn't exist for anyone. The dispute is over how the pot is divided, and in this case it is being suggested that more of it should be used for the benefit of African Americans hurt by slavery and racism.

[pErvinalia]

Well, you don't think that's punishment, but to me, that's punishing people today for things that they did not do.

Also, it doesn't matter if it's not punishment. It's collective responsibility for the effects of something we had nothing to do with.

But what if you considered it as an attempt to make society better, something which benefits all of us in the long run?

[pErvinalia]

So, if the only thing you're paying reparations for is the part of the inequality and worseness of our situation today that is directly attributable to slavery, and the only people that have to pay it are "White" people, then it is holding them responsible for the wrongs of their forefathers.

Where's the suggestion that only white people pay it?

[JimC]

So, if the only thing you're paying reparations for is the part of the inequality and worseness of our situation today that is directly attributable to slavery, and the only people that have to pay it are "White" people, then it is holding them responsible for the wrongs of their forefathers.

Where's the suggestion that only white people pay it?

Maybe no direct suggestion, but it would seem obvious, in the sense that reparations that made economic sense would be paid via some form of tax surcharge, perhaps corporate and private, and the bulk would (and should, if it happens at all) would come from the wealthier and predominantly white sector of US society...

[laklak]

You'll get my reparations when you pry them out of my cold, dead hands. You won't have long to wait if the quack can't get my blood pressure down to a livable level. I fucking hate getting old, you know? It sucks.

[pErvinalia]

So, if the only thing you're paying reparations for is the part of the inequality and worseness of our situation today that is directly attributable to slavery, and the only people that have to pay it are "White" people, then it is holding them responsible for the wrongs of their forefathers.

Where's the suggestion that only white people pay it?

Maybe no direct suggestion, but it would seem obvious, in the sense that reparations that made economic sense would be paid via some form of tax surcharge, perhaps corporate and private, and the bulk would (and should, if it happens at all) would come from the wealthier and predominantly white sector of US society...

Yeah but it's not only white people. Far from it.

[Brian Peacock]

Reverse racism still is racism, only by treating all citizens equally will anything worthwhile be achieved.

Hippy!

[rainbow]

Oh, also, the idea that America is a "racist country" is one that I take issue with. It's not a racist country. It's a country, like all others, which has some racists in it, but it is not a racist country.

I can't say I met any racist Americans when I was there, but then I tended to be in the civilised areas.

[Brian Peacock]

If reparations are for slavery, and based on races having been held in enslavement, then no racial group is exempt from reparations, at least on a worldwide scale.

Slavery was the norm through most of human history. It was the western Enlightenment which ended it. The British Empire was one of the greatest anti-slavery forces out there.

I'm against it, because I oppose collective punishments and guilt by association, or guilt for the sins of one's ancestors.

Why does it have to be an expression of guilt rather than one of kindness, compassion, or a belated acknowledgement of the economic contribution and benefit of forced labour?

[Brian Peacock]

...

If you were, in fact, looking to address inequalities and the ways in which society could be made better, then everyone would contribute, and the beneficiaries would be more than just black people...

Everyone can contribute, through taxation, and everyone in society benefits from a more tolerant and equitable, less discriminatory society. Of course, right/white-wingers will always go on about how broad measures to improve the lives of this-or-that minority is fundamentally inequitable, intolerable, and a form of institutionalised discrimination against them, but that only holds if one believes that improving the circumstances of others has to be traded off against how much worse that's going to make you feel.