Sex and Gender
- JimC
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Re: Sex and Gender
The sport thing is tricky, sure. Recently, a once-male now-female Aussie rules footballer was banned from playing in our main female competition (although she does play in minor leagues without any issues). The decision generated some controversy...
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Re: Sex and Gender
I think it's a bit much to suggest that acknowledging the "technically true" fact that there are birth defects is something like Nazi Germany's policy of considering Jews to be subhuman.JimC wrote:Very judgemental to call them aberrations. While it might be true in a technical sense, to use it as a label for a class of people has echoes of the gas chambers about it...Forty Two wrote:Nobody said there weren't aberrations.NineBerry wrote:Yes, we are, but that doesn't mean that every individual is a perfect and 100% male or female. Evolution doesn't create processes that are 100% reliable.Forty Two wrote: I mean, I studied biology in school. Are we not a sexually dimorphic species?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Sex and Gender
I would go with biological sex. The activist athletes want to go by gender. But, with private organizations, they could do what they want, and if they want to let males and females compete against each other, so be it. I think a lot of people watching, however, would raise an eyebrow as to the weightlifter formerly known as Mikey "Muscles" Malone competing against Mary and Sue because he changed his name to Monica "Muscles" Malone and took some hormones. There is a basic difference between a person who grew up male, and then transitioned into female, and the competition is not fair in that respect.NineBerry wrote:So, what criteria do you use to decide whether an athlete competes as a male or a female?
This apparently simple question is a lot more complex than most people would think.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Sex and Gender
Another problem is when people say it's a spectrum, which it isn't. It's bimodal distribution.NineBerry wrote:Sex is biological and therefore unreliable. Gender is a combination of biology and culture and therefore even more unreliable.
Problem is that when people say "sex is biology", they often wrongly assume that means that it is binary and not complex.
Be careful, you may be trodding off the reservation by saying gender is connected in any way to biology... that's tantamount to hate speech.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Sex and Gender
...it's a disorder, and such persons are invariably born sterile. They are genetically female, and the second X chromosome they have contains genetic material from the Y chromosome that they didn't get. The number of people with this disorder is 0.0025% of the population. They're not male. They're genetically female, but they have some phenotype characteristics of males - often not appearing clearly as either/or.NineBerry wrote:The chance that a male person (unless they were already tested genetically or already have children) does not have a Y chromosome is higher than that he becomes a millionaire.JimC wrote:relatively small number of individual humans with biological sexual features that are blended in some way
It's not another sex. It's not a spectrum.
Last edited by Forty Two on Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Sex and Gender
Who says it's a spectrum?Forty Two wrote:Another problem is when people say it's a spectrum, which it isn't. It's bimodal distribution.NineBerry wrote:Sex is biological and therefore unreliable. Gender is a combination of biology and culture and therefore even more unreliable.
Problem is that when people say "sex is biology", they often wrongly assume that means that it is binary and not complex.
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Re: Sex and Gender
Forty Two wrote:...it's a disorder, and such persons are invariably born sterile. They are genetically male.... They're not male..... They're genetically femaleNineBerry wrote:The chance that a male person (unless they were already tested genetically or already have children) does not have a Y chromosome is higher than that he becomes a millionaire.JimC wrote:relatively small number of individual humans with biological sexual features that are blended in some way
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.
Re: Sex and Gender
So no clear answer to the question how to define biological sex...
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Re: Sex and Gender
Genetics. If you have an XY chromosome, you're male. If not, you're genetically female. Add a special test for those that wish to compete with Klinefelter's syndrome or the Male-XX syndrome - base that on hormone levels meeting a particular level, and have done with it.
Letting males who have sex changes to female compete against women is unfair to the women competitors. It's another way that the patriarchy oppresses women. If "transwomen are women" then there would be no reason why Bruce Jenner couldn't have a sex change in the 1970s, and win every gold medal in the female summer Olympics. https://www.bitchmedia.org/post/trans-w ... aying-this
Letting males who have sex changes to female compete against women is unfair to the women competitors. It's another way that the patriarchy oppresses women. If "transwomen are women" then there would be no reason why Bruce Jenner couldn't have a sex change in the 1970s, and win every gold medal in the female summer Olympics. https://www.bitchmedia.org/post/trans-w ... aying-this
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Sex and Gender
Yeah, it's all very Natural Law Theology isn't it?JimC wrote:Very judgemental to call them aberrations. While it might be true in a technical sense, to use it as a label for a class of people has echoes of the gas chambers about it...Forty Two wrote:Nobody said there weren't aberrations.NineBerry wrote:Yes, we are, but that doesn't mean that every individual is a perfect and 100% male or female. Evolution doesn't create processes that are 100% reliable.Forty Two wrote: I mean, I studied biology in school. Are we not a sexually dimorphic species?
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
- Forty Two
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Re: Sex and Gender
Oh, I'm sorry. Is it o.k. to call these conditions syndromes, instead of aberrations? What about conditions?
The XX male syndrome is a chromosomal disorder. It's a condition which is diagnosed. Appears in about 4 out of 100,000 births.
Klinefelter's syndrome is a bit more common, in about 1 in 500 births - involves having an extra chromosome.
These aren't "sexes" or "genders."
Natural law theology, lol. It's medical science.
The XX male syndrome is a chromosomal disorder. It's a condition which is diagnosed. Appears in about 4 out of 100,000 births.
Klinefelter's syndrome is a bit more common, in about 1 in 500 births - involves having an extra chromosome.
These aren't "sexes" or "genders."
Natural law theology, lol. It's medical science.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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Re: Sex and Gender
Oh, OK, I'll take that back - it's more like tone policing, but that still involves laying down the law, doesn't it?
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Details on how to do that can be found here.
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"It isn't necessary to imagine the world ending in fire or ice.
There are two other possibilities: one is paperwork, and the other is nostalgia."
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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