There seems to be a conflation of the terms sex and gender, not just by people who are the right wing transphobes or those who don't want to acknowledge multiple genders and non-binary stuff, but also by the pro-gender/trans folks.
What I mean is, I often see folks objecting to a sex based distinction by claiming that gender is not binary. Take the sports area lately where biological males are getting involved in women's leagues because they claim their gender is female. They say "trans women are women!" and demand to compete in women's wrestling, soccer, and other sports.
What I never see in response to that is anyone saying that the distinction is not based on gender, but rather, it's based on sex. So, i'm wondering, is it still politically correct to say that sex is biological and gender is something else entirely?
It seems to be something of an issue where you cannot call a male to female trans person a male, because the person says their gender is female. Well, I'm not sure why they would object to being called "male" because that would still be their sex, even if it's not their gender, right? But now, there seems to be this trend away from acknowledging sex as extant at all, and that it's gender that is the only thing to be considered.
About a year or so ago, the trend began where the notion of biological sex was called a myth or a social construct. Is that idea now the prevailing idea? Or, can we still say that Sam is a biological male, and gender female -- or, is that now transphobia?
Sex and Gender
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Forty Two
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Sex and Gender
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
Re: Sex and Gender
The fact is that there is no clear biological distinction between male and female in humans. There are different rules you could use to decide the biological sex of persons and each rule would create different sets of persons and for each rule there would be persons that your could not clearly define as male or female.
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Forty Two
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Re: Sex and Gender
Is the Y chromosome a clear biological distinction?NineBerry wrote:The fact is that there is no clear biological distinction between male and female in humans. There are different rules you could use to decide the biological sex of persons and each rule would create different sets of persons and for each rule there would be persons that your could not clearly define as male or female.
Do you have a source for the "no biological distinction" bit? I mean, I studied biology in school. Are we not a sexually dimorphic species?
About a year or so ago, I was told that a college professor's allegation that there is no such thing as biological sex, and that it's all just a social construct, was a bizarre and outlandish allegation. Has it gone mainstream already?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
Re: Sex and Gender
There are people without Y chromosome that are born with a penis and people with an y chromosome that are born without a penis.
Someone who is born with female anatomy, living all her life as a woman, can be found to have an y chromosome.
Someone who is born with male anatomy, living all his life as a man, can be found to have no y chromosome.
Someone who is born with female anatomy, living all her life as a woman, can be found to have an y chromosome.
Someone who is born with male anatomy, living all his life as a man, can be found to have no y chromosome.
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JimC
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Re: Sex and Gender
The distinction is not rigid, but is still valid. The human male and human female sets are slightly fuzzy at the overlap, and this does need to be recognised, but at the same time, the vast majority of humans are clearly and unambiguously either biologically male or female, whatever their sexual preferences may be.
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Re: Sex and Gender
Yes, we are, but that doesn't mean that every individual is a perfect and 100% male or female. Evolution doesn't create processes that are 100% reliable.Forty Two wrote: I mean, I studied biology in school. Are we not a sexually dimorphic species?
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JimC
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Re: Sex and Gender
However, as I indicated before, a large majority of individuals are clearly one or the other. One can recognise this while still agreeing that the relatively small number of individual humans with biological sexual features that are blended in some way should be recognised, accepted and validated by society.NineBerry wrote:Yes, we are, but that doesn't mean that every individual is a perfect and 100% male or female. Evolution doesn't create processes that are 100% reliable.Forty Two wrote: I mean, I studied biology in school. Are we not a sexually dimorphic species?
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Forty Two
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Re: Sex and Gender
Nobody said there weren't aberrations.NineBerry wrote:Yes, we are, but that doesn't mean that every individual is a perfect and 100% male or female. Evolution doesn't create processes that are 100% reliable.Forty Two wrote: I mean, I studied biology in school. Are we not a sexually dimorphic species?
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar
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JimC
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Re: Sex and Gender
Very judgemental to call them aberrations. While it might be true in a technical sense, to use it as a label for a class of people has echoes of the gas chambers about it...Forty Two wrote:Nobody said there weren't aberrations.NineBerry wrote:Yes, we are, but that doesn't mean that every individual is a perfect and 100% male or female. Evolution doesn't create processes that are 100% reliable.Forty Two wrote: I mean, I studied biology in school. Are we not a sexually dimorphic species?
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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Re: Sex and Gender
So, what criteria do you use to decide whether an athlete competes as a male or a female?
This apparently simple question is a lot more complex than most people would think.
This apparently simple question is a lot more complex than most people would think.
Re: Sex and Gender
Sex is biological and therefore unreliable. Gender is a combination of biology and culture and therefore even more unreliable.
Problem is that when people say "sex is biology", they often wrongly assume that means that it is binary and not complex.
Problem is that when people say "sex is biology", they often wrongly assume that means that it is binary and not complex.
Re: Sex and Gender
The chance that a male person (unless they were already tested genetically or already have children) does not have a Y chromosome is higher than that he becomes a millionaire.JimC wrote:relatively small number of individual humans with biological sexual features that are blended in some way
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JimC
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Re: Sex and Gender
Even that would be pretty small, if you are talking millionaires vs the whole world population...NineBerry wrote:The chance that a male person (unless they were already tested genetically or already have children) does not have a Y chromosome is higher than that he becomes a millionaire.JimC wrote:relatively small number of individual humans with biological sexual features that are blended in some way
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
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Re: Sex and Gender
Yeah, but when planning to put all millionaires against the wall after the Revolution, you will soon find that you need quite a lot of walls.
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