Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Rum » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:33 pm

JimC wrote:
Rum wrote:Most of human experience is embedded in a socially constructed context, including of course language. We agree on the meanings of words and language and when they are ambiguous or where understood meanings diverge we understand that too.

If one chooses to communicate in a given manner - one that others of the same ilk - also agree upon then the content of those communications is perfectly valid and says what those using it wish it to say.

One can opt out of the 'dialect' (which in a way is what it is) or even dismiss it, but those using it understand what they are discussing and that validates its use.

So there.
The main trouble is, Rum, that there is a significant group within post modern thought that, rather than only applying their language and social models to discussions within their academic specialised subject, wish to apply their often incoherent paradigm to the whole of human endeavour. Laughably, this frequently includes science, an area they clearly know very little about...
A source or example would have been helpful. I have only seen this concept employed in relation to arts and crafts and architecture - design generally. One can just ignore it if people start bullshitting when they are out of their knowledge zone.

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by JimC » Tue Dec 12, 2017 11:43 pm

I can't bring up a specific example from memory, but typically it involves cultural relativity, where social science academics claim that science is only one amongst a host of equally valid ways of describing the universe, ranging from tribal creation myths to feminist views that reason and logic are tools of the patriarchy...

If I get too worked up over this crap, I'll start to sound like 42, so I better desist... ;)
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by rainbow » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:21 am

Forty Two wrote:
rainbow wrote:
Forty Two wrote:
rainbow wrote:
Forty Two wrote: In other words, Postmodernism is incoherent, internally inconsistent, and pointless.
In your reality perhaps.
Reality is a social construct.
:nono: :nono:
How many times do we need to explain this to you?
:whisper: Social Constructs are Reality :whisper:
Reality is a social construct.
I've explained why your premise is false.

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Pappa » Wed Dec 13, 2017 6:38 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Pappa wrote:Having studied art at university I can confirm that postmodernism is utter bollocks. It's basically rhetorical sleight of hand and intellectual masturbation with no substance whatsoever.
Actually, I think what you meant to say was that in pursuance of developing narratives of expressive significance within an reactive institutional setting you were led towards critical interpretations of the semantic and semiotic relationships that interdict upon both the discrete realm of one's personal sensual associations and the ephemeral nature of communicative configurations which, as Olafson put it, would otherwise confound the perspicacity of the intellectually well-equipped.

:whistle:
Exactly my point. :biggrin:

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Forty Two » Wed Dec 13, 2017 8:41 pm

I think you meant to say that it is exactly your "positionality."
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Pappa » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:29 pm

Forty Two wrote:I think you meant to say that it is exactly your "positionality."
In a non-normative sense, perhaps.

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by rainbow » Thu Dec 14, 2017 8:28 am

Pappa wrote:
Forty Two wrote:I think you meant to say that it is exactly your "positionality."
In a non-normative sense, perhaps.
...and how exactly does that justify the subjugation of the disadvantaged by the patriarchal objectivist intrinsic value system?
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Forty Two » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:08 pm

I think Pappa is position-fluid. I mean, this whole binary notion of having a position on an issue, or not having one, is so 20th century. Positions on issues exist on a spectrum, and so one can hold a view, not hold a view, or both hold the view and not hold the view at the same time, or change one's views given one's feelings at the time. So, to say that someone has made an allegation, or an assertion, or espoused a view, or to ask someone what their view, allegation or assertion is, is a really ambivalencephobic, and presupposes the classical norm of our patriarchal society that words having meaning and that expressing a view in words bears any relationship to the true thoughts and feelings of the person expressing them.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Rum » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:46 pm

Now you are moving towards quantum modernism.

No fair!

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Forty Two » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:06 pm

I'm publishing that paper in the Journal of Postmodern Thought.

You can cite me as: Two, Forty, "Toward a Post-Patriarchal Quantum Postmodern Theory of Ideation Positionality," Journal of Postmodern Thought (Dec. 2017). It's a paper challenging traditional society norms that ideas and positions are different than other ideas and positions which purport to contradict them. Post-Patriachal Quantum Postmodernism is based on the quintessential notion that a non-patriarchal society would treat ideation positionality as not only independent of reason, but independent of explanation. In other words, you're wrong, and if you don't already know why, I'm certainly not going to explain it to you.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Rum » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:12 pm

I see you've moved well on from missionary positioning then. Good fucking thinking!

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by Forty Two » Thu Dec 14, 2017 6:37 pm

That's "colonial religious oppressor positionality."

That's how the SJWs do it. "Oh, baby, I'm going to repeatedly ask her for consent over and over again good and hard, and then if she clearly, unequivocally and enthusiastically consents, and if I can sure it's not just the patriarchy having conditioned her to give that consent since in our unequal and misogynistic world makes real consent on the part of a woman difficult or impossible... I'll do her in the colonial religious oppressor position!"
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by rainbow » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:46 am

Forty Two wrote:I think Pappa is position-fluid. I mean, this whole binary notion of having a position on an issue, or not having one, is so 20th century. Positions on issues exist on a spectrum, and so one can hold a view, not hold a view, or both hold the view and not hold the view at the same time, or change one's views given one's feelings at the time. So, to say that someone has made an allegation, or an assertion, or espoused a view, or to ask someone what their view, allegation or assertion is, is a really ambivalencephobic, and presupposes the classical norm of our patriarchal society that words having meaning and that expressing a view in words bears any relationship to the true thoughts and feelings of the person expressing them.
Yes, but Duh!

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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by rainbow » Fri Dec 15, 2017 6:50 am

Rum wrote:Now you are moving towards quantum modernism.

No fair!
...with a soupcon of Multidimentional Integrative Analysis, I'll bet!
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Re: Does Post-Modernism Objectively Exist?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:31 am

Post hoc modernism
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