Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation?

Post Reply
User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by Forty Two » Wed May 24, 2017 4:17 pm

Hermit wrote:
Forty Two wrote:LOL - http://rightnow.org.au/opinion-3/cultur ... tion-food/ It's coming, Ozzies...it's coming...
Oh, just look at that - another blog. I wonder why it's filed under "Opinion" - In fucking red letters right above the title of the piece, so you don't fucking miss it.
So what if it's an opinion piece? You think that views on cultural appropriation are ever going to be hard news? It's the increase in prevalence and frequency of the expressions of these opinions that's important. Like the usual causes for the progressives, this is on the way up.

Hermit wrote: I kind of understand people getting pissed off when others muscle in on their cultural heritage they might want to make money on themselves.
Other than it not being their property, and nobody having the right to exclude others from a "culture," and the fact that saying "white" (or other color) people can't be part of or participate in another color person's "culture" is itself racist, well, I understand it too. I'm Scandinavian, and it really pisses me off when they steal my cultural heritage to name football teams, and sell Scandinavian foods to non-Scandinavians. Darkies shouldn't be allowed to muscle in on my cultural heritage.
Hermit wrote: Chanel copped some flak from some Australian Aborigines last week when it marketed its own boomerang - for AU$1930.



In my view Chanel was aiming at a completely different market. If anything, it might have served as positive publicity for the much cheaper Australian product, though it wouldn't surprise me if most boomerangs sold in Australian tourist traps were made in China. Almost all those cuddly koala bear toys are.
Exactly what I'm talking about. Brace yourselves, Ozzies. The Ozzies here have been telling me that the freakshow in the US doesn't occur there.... but, Image
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by Forty Two » Fri May 26, 2017 2:31 pm

There’s a bad taste in my mouth when white restaurant owners co-opt tacos for profits and white foodies venture for the most “authentic” tacos as a badge to show off their own expansive tastes because in both cases they’re taking parts of a culture they enjoy and commodifying it, all while disregarding the parts they don’t care for.
https://www.autostraddle.com/taco-tuesd ... ur-307608/

White people owning restaurants that make tacos is problematic, because for it not to be problematic only people of a certain ethnicity should be able to make and sell tacos.
Do white people eating tacos care for rights of the undocumented worker preparing their next Instagrammable plate?
Well, first of all, almost all of the people preparing food in restaurants in the US are not undocumented workers. Most are lawful residents with the right to work. Undocumented immigrants - aka illegal aliens - are not legally permitted to work in the United States, and to do so they must lie to their employer.

Even so, most white people do "care for rights" of all people, not just lawful residents. However, if they are working in the US without the legal right to do so, then they aren't really having their rights violated. Perhaps if they are not being paid minimum wage or overtime compensation they might be, but most employers abide by the law, and the wage laws in the US allow undocumented immigrants to report their employer's violations and they will be investigated and if found to be true the employer will be forced to pay wages and fines. So, there is a mechanism there.

The writer here seems to think that white people eating tacos don't give a fuck. Just gimme my taco and fuck you! Because, you know, white people don't care. Other colors of people care, but not white people.
Can the Mexican cooks, waitresses, busboys, dishwashers and staff who work at these restaurants afford to eat the food?
Not sure, I guess it depends on if it's a high end or low end restaurants. There are plenty of American steakhouses with average meal costs of $75 to $100 a meal at which poor people can't generally afford to eat. This is not specific to Mexicans. But, generally, Mexican restaurants are not high end establishments and there are foods on the menu that are affordable to most people.

And, it's not just Mexicans who work in these jobs. I am as white as they come, and I and many other white, male, cisgendered, folks have toiled away as busboys. I and others cleaned tables, and washed dishes, and cleaned bathrooms and the like. We generally get through that kind of job in our younger years, not remaining in them for life, but we aren't immigrating to a new country, without legal authorization, without a social security number, and without an education or qualification to do anything else. Today in the US, the busboy would be making about $8.00 an hour, but back in Mexico, the Mexicans would be working in restaurants making about 40 cents (US) an hour. So, when they come to the US illegally, that's one of the reasons why they're doing it. Many of them come to the US to work, and send back half their wages home, which equates to about 8 days of pay for every one day of pay they would make in Mexico. If they come to the US and work their ass off for a few years, they can amass a nest egg that helps their family amount monumentally.
When taquerias owned by Mexicans don’t conform to white people’s tastebuds or standards of appearance, will its food be acclaimed?
Another racist position here - "white people's tastebuds" lol. "white people's standards of appearance?" We have a racially determined taste bud and standard of appearance? LOL.

But, the answer is the food will be "acclaimed" by people who find it appealing. That may differ from person to person and culture to culture. An American chophouse might not go over well in Mexico - not because of "non-white taste buds" (Mexicans are generally white or aboriginal - Mexican doesn't mean "non-white" racially). The restaurant might not go over well because it's not served in what people there have been culturally brought up to enjoy and expect - countries south of the Rio Grande River tend to have thinner cut steaks, usually extensively marinated, and cooked in sauces, so if they saw a giant ribeye steak on a plate, with loaded baked potato, vegetable side and a side salad, they wouldn't generally see that as their preferred meal on a daily basis. Presumably many of them would enjoy experimenting with another kind of food, but as a successful restaurant, it may have some trouble.
The interactions between white people and Mexican food has always been fucked. Before it became popularized in the U.S., Mexican food was thought of too exotic, dangerous and spicy to be eaten. Food historian Jeffrey Pilcher points out these ideas have reinforced racist images of Mexicans. “People use food to think about others, and popular views of the taco as cheap, hot, and potentially dangerous have reinforced racist images of Mexico as a land of tequila, migrants, and tourist’s diarrhea.”
Oh, really? What about the white people in Mexico. Mexicans are not by definition non-white, and the percentage of the population that is of white European descent is estimated as up to 47% of the population. http://www.conapred.org.mx/documentos_c ... RACIAL.pdf The Mexican National Council to Prevent Discrimination), which seeks to remedy discrimination in Mexico against black Mexicans and Mexicans of indigenous descent, by a culture which apparently favors white Mexicans.

Tacos are cheap food, and in the US they were often served spicy and
My family has experienced the impact of these racist ideas. I wrote in the first Taco Tuesday column about how my mom was embarrassed to eat the tacos my grandmother prepared for her school lunch in front of her classmates. Immigrant food has always been scorned for being the other and for not conforming to American culture.
Kids tease other kids over being different? What a shocker.

My mom made me wear scandinavian sweaters to school, and I got teased too.
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59354
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by pErvinalia » Fri May 26, 2017 2:42 pm

That last bit is so dumb it's embarrassing. What does he/she think the answer is? Keeping Taco's as something only immigrants eat, or see it become widespread and normal? This person is just perpetuating the "otherness" of tacos and ensuring that future generations of Mexicans will be teased for eating it at school too.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Forty Two
Posts: 14978
Joined: Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:01 pm
About me: I am the grammar snob about whom your mother warned you.
Location: The Of Color Side of the Moon
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by Forty Two » Fri May 26, 2017 5:29 pm

pErvin wrote:That last bit is so dumb it's embarrassing. What does he/she think the answer is? Keeping Taco's as something only immigrants eat, or see it become widespread and normal? This person is just perpetuating the "otherness" of tacos and ensuring that future generations of Mexicans will be teased for eating it at school too.
I don't even know what time period she's referring to about tacos being something people would mock. If I ate tacos in the 1970s at lunch, everybody would want them. Far from being teased, I'd have people trying to take my lunch from me. What we ate at school in the 1970s was generally stuff that could be eaten by hand - sandwiches -- a 70s thermos with soup in it, maybe - milk. That was lunch in a brown bag. The shit they served in the cafeteria varied and would involve chicken one day, meat the next, and pizza on Friday. Mexican food would have been a step up and a massive feast.

Tacos have been widespread and normal in the US for as long as I've been conscious of food, which is a long time. Nobody would get mocked for eating. What they WOULD get mocked for is eating what I had to eat sometimes - the stuff my immigrant mother from scandinavia would make. Imagine having your friends over and mom made "fish balls" for dinner, and served it with her "Swedish Chef" accent.....

Oh, and a lot of what is served in the US is not exactly Mexican food, anyway. A lot of it is "Tex Mex" which is its own iteration of food which is a fusion of southern American and Mexican foods and preparation methods.

If a Mexican makes "Fajitas", are they culturally appropriating? Fajitas were invented in Texas in the 1920s. If you order a Margarita with it, are you culturally appropriating? That was invented in the US. Burrito? The first restaurant style burrito was served in Los Angeles at the Cholo Spanish Cafe in the 1920s. The Chimichanga? Invented in Arizona. Tacitos were invented in Los Angeles in the 1930s. Hard shell tacos? Invented in the US. Churros? Invented in China. Hot sauce that we see on tacos and things - invented in California. Mexican food is not particularly spicy in Mexico itself.

So...
“When I was in college, I took a terrorism class. ... The thing that was interesting in the class was every time the professor said ‘Al Qaeda’ his shoulders went up, But you know, it is that you don’t say ‘America’ with an intensity, you don’t say ‘England’ with the intensity. You don’t say ‘the army’ with the intensity,” she continued. “... But you say these names [Al Qaeda] because you want that word to carry weight. You want it to be something.” - Ilhan Omar

User avatar
NineBerry
Tame Wolf
Posts: 8951
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 1:35 pm
Location: nSk
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by NineBerry » Mon Jun 12, 2017 9:36 pm

tmp_6556-IMG_20170612_233422-662137763.jpg

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 73094
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by JimC » Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:05 pm

"This is our last gastronomic demand in Europe" :tea:
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 40376
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by Svartalf » Tue Jun 13, 2017 1:44 am

NineBerry wrote:
tmp_6556-IMG_20170612_233422-662137763.jpg
Given that the modenr döner kebab sandwich IS a German invention, I don't see the problem.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
rainbow
Posts: 13534
Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2012 8:10 am
About me: Egal wie dicht du bist, Goethe war Dichter
Location: Africa
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by rainbow » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:16 am

Forty Two wrote: White people owning restaurants that make tacos is problematic, because for it not to be problematic only people of a certain ethnicity should be able to make and sell tacos.
:fp:
It is only problematic because you confuse "race" with ethnicity.

Until you work this one out, you'll not be worth the effort of engaging in conversation.
I call bullshit - Alfred E Einstein
BArF−4

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 40376
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by Svartalf » Tue Jun 13, 2017 6:48 am

some of the best pizzas in my area are in a non Italian owned restaurant... will I forego fine pizza because it's not authentic?
I know it's not true Italian Pizza, then again that is not to be found in France, period, when I want authentic, I'll go to Italy.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
JimC
The sentimental bloke
Posts: 73094
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 7:58 am
About me: To be serious about gin requires years of dedicated research.
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by JimC » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:07 am

Svartalf wrote:some of the best pizzas in my area are in a non Italian owned restaurant... will I forego fine pizza because it's not authentic?
I know it's not true Italian Pizza, then again that is not to be found in France, period, when I want authentic, I'll go to Italy.
Or Oz!

We have so many Italian migrants, we could be called Italy South!

They have collectively rescued us from English cooking! :{D
Nurse, where the fuck's my cardigan?
And my gin!

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by Hermit » Tue Jun 13, 2017 9:49 am

Speaking of pizza, Sam Panopoulos, the inventor of the Hawaiian pizza has died four days ago. He was a Greek who migrated to Canada when he was 20 years old. Napoli ought to retrospectively give him the freedom of the city for having created the second best pizza in the world.

OK, I'm just hamming it up now in the hope to attract Bella Fortuna back to the forum for a fight. :duel:
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:03 am

You dont get the best French food in only France. Go to Brussel there are fantastic restaurants serving French cuisine.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 59354
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:08 am

I heard French food in the Netherlands was better than anywhere else...
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
Svartalf
Offensive Grail Keeper
Posts: 40376
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:42 pm
Location: Paris France
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by Svartalf » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:11 am

Belgian fries are better than French.
Embrace the Darkness, it needs a hug

PC stands for "Patronizing Cocksucker" Randy Ping

User avatar
Scot Dutchy
Posts: 19000
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 pm
About me: Dijkbeschermer
Location: 's-Gravenhage, Nederland
Contact:

Re: Eating other ethnicities' foods = cultural appropriation

Post by Scot Dutchy » Tue Jun 13, 2017 10:17 am

pErvin wrote:I heard French food in the Netherlands was better than anywhere else...
No Belgium is THE place to eat. Brussel, Luik and Antwerpen are all good. We have some good ones but the Dutch being the Dutch are too stingy to pay for good food. The Belge will always pay for quality. Just go to one of their supermarkets as the choice is just amazing.
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests