Islam - How Awful Is It?

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by JimC » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:04 pm

Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:42 pm
If they don't follow the book, then they're not Muslims and they're not subject of this discussion.

Thanks for conceding the point that Muslims (those who actually practice the religion, and follow the book) are bad though.
What utter nonsense. Islam is very broad, and the majority (certainly in western countries) have absolutely no interest in being fundamentalist, just as most christians do not literally follow every biblical injunction. Perhaps that makes muslims who quietly ignore the nastier bits in the Koran (and yes, I know there are plenty) hypocritical to a degree, but they are still muslims, just as much as my dear old auntie was a christian...

There is an argument that moderate muslims could be a little more robust in their critique of the fundamentalist amongst them. The real problem, though, is that the more that the rabid racist right hops on an anti-islam bandwagon because of racial hatred, the harder it is to criticise the religion, rather than its adherents.
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Cunt » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:07 pm

JimC wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:04 pm
Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:42 pm
If they don't follow the book, then they're not Muslims and they're not subject of this discussion.

Thanks for conceding the point that Muslims (those who actually practice the religion, and follow the book) are bad though.
What utter nonsense. Islam is very broad, and the majority (certainly in western countries) have absolutely no interest in being fundamentalist, just as most christians do not literally follow every biblical injunction. Perhaps that makes muslims who quietly ignore the nastier bits in the Koran (and yes, I know there are plenty) hypocritical to a degree, but they are still muslims, just as much as my dear old auntie was a christian...

There is an argument that moderate muslims could be a little more robust in their critique of the fundamentalist amongst them. The real problem, though, is that the more that the rabid racist right hops on an anti-islam bandwagon because of racial hatred, the harder it is to criticise the religion, rather than its adherents.
Yeah, those bastards Hitchins, Harris et al should just have shut up about it. Nevermind how much hatred is spouted by Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

If only we accept their culture, they would calm down and be respectful of ours, right?

Or do you think tolerance leads to more Sharia law?
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by JimC » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:11 pm

No one should shut up at all, in terms of criticising the clear and obvious nastiness of the jihad and sharia mentality. All I'm saying is that it is irrational to ignore the muslims who have no desire to go down that path, and just want to get on with everyday life...
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Cunt » Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:15 pm

JimC wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:11 pm
No one should shut up at all, in terms of criticising the clear and obvious nastiness of the jihad and sharia mentality. All I'm saying is that it is irrational to ignore the muslims who have no desire to go down that path, and just want to get on with everyday life...
What I'm saying is that tolerance of muslims seems to always lead to more islamic law creeping into the books. Feel free to show me where I'm wrong, but at the moment, every culture I can think of which rejects Islam, is painted as racist by the media. (Poland may have taken a stand...China certainly is having conflict of that nature)
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Rum » Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:09 pm

Please post an example of Islamic law ‘creeping into the books’.

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Re: Islam - How Awful Is It?

Post by Brian Peacock » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:03 pm

...thread merger...
.

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:15 pm

Cunt wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:36 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 3:32 pm
Muslims are just people dude. That means you can expect the full range. This is an easy concept.

I get the point you're making, it just distorts things a bit is all.
Where are the Muslims being critical of extremist muslims?
I've seen heaps of reports of Muslims protesting extremism. You don't see it because you don't want to see it.
In Canada, it would be illegal to say the rational, honest things Aayan Hirsi Ali has said, written and researched. Anyone in Britain is in even worse shape. (look at what happened when Tommy Robinson went into jail with his ideological opponents)
Robinson went to jail for contempt of court.
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:20 pm

Cunt wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:03 pm
Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:56 pm
Sure, why not? We are free to separate the parts of Islam that we see as political e.g. rule of law from the parts that we see as spiritual e.g. destination of souls. A Muslim may not be free to do so, or they may be. But we certainly are.
In a place with sharia law, such as Canada,
What the fuck are you on about? Are you totally incapable of having a discussion without introducing ridiculous levels of hyperbole?
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:23 pm

Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:21 pm
I'm certainly having a problem understanding how it's possible to follow the exhortations to violence in the Quran in a different way. Perhaps you can explain?
They just ignore them the same way that most Christians ignore the odious shit in the Bible do. How is this hard to understand?
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:24 pm

Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:33 pm
Incidentally, your characterization of American Muslims as non-violent followers of a new Islam doesn't bear the ring of truth as often young American (and Canadian) Muslims are radicalized and travel to conflict zones to slay infidels in the name of their religion.

Just saying.
What percentage of them do that? :roll:
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:25 pm

Sean Hayden wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:34 pm
--often? --often dude?

What is the percentage of Muslims in America who become radicalized? No wait, it's 100%, because if they aren't radicalized they ain't Muslims! I think I see why this is so important now.
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Re: Islam - How Awful Is It?

Post by Seabass » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:27 pm

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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:27 pm

Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:40 pm
The percentage? Are you serious?
Of course he's serious. You made a ridiculously hyperbolic claim, and now that you've been asked to back it up you are running from your claim.
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Re: Should Stupidity Be Declared A Criminal Ideology?

Post by Hermit » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:40 pm

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:27 pm
Śiva wrote:
Wed Oct 10, 2018 5:40 pm
The percentage? Are you serious?
Of course he's serious. You made a ridiculously hyperbolic claim...
Śiva wrote "...often young American (and Canadian) Muslims are radicalized and travel to conflict zones to slay infidels in the name of their religion." That's not hyperbolic. Not if you define 300 out of 3 million, or 0.0001% as 'often'.

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Re: Islam - How Awful Is It?

Post by JimC » Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:46 pm

The handful that do get radicalised do need to be treated seriously, by good intelligence and police work, and dealt with firmly. In Australia at least, that is generally happening.

What we don't need is a broad, unthinking, racist anti-Islam movement, where women wearing headscarfs are spat at on the streets. It is precisely those sort of things which contribute to the radicalisation in the first place...
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