Problematic Stuff

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pErvinalia
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:48 pm

Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:20 am
pErvinalia wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 am
Do you mean that antifa commit justifiable violence on evil people only? I don't see where the equivalence is false, even less bullshit... sure, given that they tussle with neo nazis and th like, the antifa do try to claim moral high ground... but that claim is where the bullshit lies... their violence is for the sake of committing mayhem. it's not even really politically motivated, not that politically violence is acceptable either... they are like football hooligans tussling with the fans of some other team, only, in their case, the teams are political groups.
WTF? This is just wrong on so many levels. It's absolutely politically motivated. It's in their name! :fp: And it most definitely is a false equivalency, as one side are racists and the other side oppose racists. Unless you think that people who oppose racists aren't any better than racists. Which would be a pretty strange position to hold.
You're missing Svarty's point, or just ignoring it.
I must be missing it. What do you think it is?
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Seabass » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:17 am

Racists aren't really a problem in the US. It's just a few isolated nutjobs. SJWs are the real problem. :prof:

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:22 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:48 pm
Brian Peacock wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:20 am
pErvinalia wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:40 am
Do you mean that antifa commit justifiable violence on evil people only? I don't see where the equivalence is false, even less bullshit... sure, given that they tussle with neo nazis and th like, the antifa do try to claim moral high ground... but that claim is where the bullshit lies... their violence is for the sake of committing mayhem. it's not even really politically motivated, not that politically violence is acceptable either... they are like football hooligans tussling with the fans of some other team, only, in their case, the teams are political groups.
WTF? This is just wrong on so many levels. It's absolutely politically motivated. It's in their name! :fp: And it most definitely is a false equivalency, as one side are racists and the other side oppose racists. Unless you think that people who oppose racists aren't any better than racists. Which would be a pretty strange position to hold.
You're missing Svarty's point, or just ignoring it.
I must be missing it. What do you think it is?
That one's use of political violence isn't justified by the politics of the people one opposes. If that holds, then the violence of fascist and racists is equally justified by the politics of the people they oppose. I think you need to make a better case.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:29 am

I think you need to reread what he wrote. He said it wasn't political violence. So the rest of your post makes no sense.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:42 am

You said anfita were engaged in political violence: "It's absolutely politically motivated", and as the people who oppose racists [antifa] are better than racists then it's "most definitely is a false equivalency (sic)" to say that racist and antifa political violence are equally unjustified. As I said, I think you need to make a better case to justify the use of political violence.
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Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:59 am

I'm directly rebutting what Svarty said, which you've shown you haven't understood. I'm not making any broader point beyond addressing what he said.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:10 am

You still have not justified how political violence is any more acceptable than the sheer hooliganism I deem it to actually be.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:13 am

pErvinalia wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:59 am
I'm directly rebutting what Svarty said, which you've shown you haven't understood. I'm not making any broader point beyond addressing what he said.
Well, I accept that you've declared your disagreement with Svarty by disavowing his charge of an equivalence of justification. I've reiterated his point, saying that one's use of political violence isn't justified by the politics of the people one opposes - which of course invokes the kind of equivalence you're disputing. So I'm suggesting that you could do more to justify antifa's use of political violence, something more than 'they're better than the racists they rumble with'.
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:16 am

Svartalf wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:10 am
You still have not justified how political violence is any more acceptable than the sheer hooliganism I deem it to actually be.
But that wasn't your original point. Your original point was that it wasn't political. Which is incorrect.

Regarding whether political violence is justifiable... in certain circumstances it clearly is, or else every single war would be unjustifiable. Kicking the Nazis arse would have been unjustifiable in WWII. That would be a silly position to hold. I think ANTIFA are morally justified in using violence to oppose white supremacy and racism. All you upstanding respectable citizens seem to forget that violence is a regular feature of political change in the past, and most of your comfortable position to pontificate about civility has been won at the end of a gun, sword or canon etc.
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Brian Peacock » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:24 am

I'm not ruling out the use political violence to achieve certain political ends. I'm hoping to understand the justification for antifa's use of political violence in the context we've been discussing it - how is it justified, why is it necessary? These are important issues. If people are going to stand up and shout "Kick their heads in!" I want a bit more than "Because my morals are superior."
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"This is how humanity ends; bickering over the irrelevant."
Clinton Huxley » 21 Jun 2012 » 14:10:36 GMT
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:25 am

mmmh, I feel a disturbance in the force, or likely a movement of the goal posts.
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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by laklak » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:11 am

Political violence is only acceptable if you win. Otherwise it's treason.
Yeah well that's just, like, your opinion, man.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:45 am

Pretty much that ^
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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:55 am

Brian Peacock wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:24 am
I'm not ruling out the use political violence to achieve certain political ends. I'm hoping to understand the justification for antifa's use of political violence in the context we've been discussing it - how is it justified, why is it necessary? These are important issues. If people are going to stand up and shout "Kick their heads in!" I want a bit more than "Because my morals are superior."
Well it's always going to come down to a moral judgment. And these things are always going to be subjective. There's no clear line in my opinion between when it is and isn't justified. There's going to be a lot of grey and difference of opinion. But from my personal perspective, I think uber-nationalism and threats of violent racism are justification for getting one's head kicked in, so to speak. These things are a threat to civil society, and if governments won't effectively act against them, then the populace has to do it themselves.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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Re: Problematic Stuff

Post by pErvinalia » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:59 am

Consider this... We see the worst of this from the US. We don't see these extremes in our countries (other than France, where they riot when they run out of bagels), because we have race hate laws. If some twat gets up in front of a crowd and starts spewing racist hate, then they'll get arrested. And the local councillors that approved their permit to hold that rally will be in for a grilling, and less likely to allow that sort of thing again in the future. Sure, this is a direct attack on FREEDUM!!1TM, but there's compromises that have to be made to live in a civil society. And because the government takes more effective action in our countries, there's less need for the citizens to sort it out themselves.
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

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