Is my spinal cord conscious?

[pErvinalia]

Imagine a situation where our spinal cords are actually conscious. Imagine there is an independent "self" contained in there. So we go into operations and our brain "self" is anaesthetised, and doesn't experience any of the pain associated with surgery. But our poor old spinal cords would be screaming in pain, if only they had access to mouths and vocal chords and lungs etc.

This is an actual serious idea, although it sounds like a bit of a piss take. I originally thought about if my big toe was conscious. How pissed would it be with the main "self" running the show and constantly bashing it into table legs and cracks in the footpath? But I figure you probably need some neurons to get consciousness, so the spinal cord, or the gut would be a better option. Actually, if my gut was conscious, it would be majorly pissed off at the brain "me" for all the shit I put in there...

[Hermit]

Cord.

[pErvinalia]

Something struck a chord when I talked about vocal chords and considered it was spelled the same as spinal chord. Unfortunately, the chord didn't really register. Maybe my spinal "self" picked it up??

[FBM]

Dood, you're gonna have to define "self" pretty closely before this one will float.

[pErvinalia]

Well it's the subjective experience. We all have it. Just that none of us can explain it.

[FBM]

Well it's the subjective experience. We all have it. Just that none of us can explain it.

Are you saying that subjective experience = self? (I'll chew you a new philosophical asshole if you say 'yes')

[pErvinalia]

Of course. How else could it be "subjective"?

[FBM]

Of course. How else could it be "subjective"?

Define the "self" that experiences, please.

[pErvinalia]

It's what experiences the redness of a red balloon. It's a concept, an abstraction. It doesn't really matter what it is, in the context of this specific OP. You only have to accept the scenario that my spinal cord is a conscious "self" to comment on the OP. If you won't accept that, then you can't really comment on the OP.

[FBM]

It's what experiences the redness of a red balloon. It's a concept, an abstraction. It doesn't really matter what it is, in the context of this specific OP. You only have to accept the scenario that my spinal cord is a conscious "self" to comment on the OP. If you won't accept that, then you can't really comment on the OP.

That's rather apt, actually, seeing as the belief in a Self is based on a conventional abstraction. There's no more Self in the spinal cord than in a toenail, as far as I can tell. The belief in the Self is the ultimate religious belief to be overcome, imo.

[pErvinalia]

But you can't tell if there is a self in your toenail or spine. Notwithstanding that neither of those things can communicate, even if they could, you'd run into the same conceptual problems with accepting that other humans have a "self" inside their heads. So you just have to play along, eff, and accept that my spinal cord could have a similar "self" to the one that seems to be embedded in my head...

[pErvinalia]

actually, you don't have to play along, because if you did, we'd just end up agreeing and we'd turn this into a typical ratz thread and soon we'd be discussing conscious tits and dicks and the like...

[Hermit]

...you can't tell if there is a self in your toenail or spine.

Correct, but even though my toenail and I have a communication problem, I believe it is not just conscious self. It is a God. I know this, for I have faith.

you'd run into the same conceptual problems with accepting that other humans have a "self" inside their heads

Read FBM's previous post. You'll find that he agrees with you.

[pErvinalia]

Yeah I know. The thing is, everyone (well mostly everyone, I suppose) reports that they have subjective experiences. So there is a phenomenon going on there. The fact that no one can explain it, doesn't necessarily discount it. And the fact that it is all self-reporting also doesn't necessarily discount it. So in this thought experiment, you are asked to accept that it could be a reality. And if it was, are we engaging in unethical behaviour when we anethesitise what I'll call our "brain self", but not our "spinal cord self"?

(I should own up that this isn't entirely my idea. While I have thoughts like this all the time (when I'm bothering to consider consciousness), I stole this particular specific example from V.S Ramachandran)

[Hermit]

The thing is, everyone (well mostly everyone, I suppose) reports that they have subjective experiences. So there is a phenomenon going on there. The fact that no one can explain it, doesn't necessarily discount it.

That's fine with me. I'm an agnostic, but in the absence of evidence for my toenail having a self, I think any belief that it has makes as much sense as believing in a god. I'll be happy, though, to discuss the matter, should some such evidence surface.