"If you dislike feminism ... "

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fishie
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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by fishie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:24 am

Seth wrote:
fishie wrote: And you know all this because?
I have the capacity to think and use logic and reason to prevail over raw emotion, and do so.

So this is your opinion rather than fact? That includes the last bit about teenage girls?
Oh and in your description of yourself you left out eloquent, smart, handsome and humble.

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Re:

Post by Seth » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:02 am

fishie wrote:
Seth wrote:
fishie wrote: And you know all this because?
I have the capacity to think and use logic and reason to prevail over raw emotion, and do so.

So this is your opinion rather than fact? That includes the last bit about teenage girls?
Oh and in your description of yourself you left out eloquent, smart, handsome and humble.
Thanks for reminding me. Of course that was not an error, I deemed it unnecessary to the conversation, but I appreciate you pointing it out for others.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

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fishie
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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by fishie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 2:17 am

Seth wrote:
fishie wrote:
Seth wrote:
fishie wrote: And you know all this because?
I have the capacity to think and use logic and reason to prevail over raw emotion, and do so.

So this is your opinion rather than fact? That includes the last bit about teenage girls?
Oh and in your description of yourself you left out eloquent, smart, handsome and humble.
Thanks for reminding me. Of course that was not an error, I deemed it unnecessary to the conversation, but I appreciate you pointing it out for others.
Why my pleasure Seth, always glad to help. I would hate for anyone to misread anything you had stated, and get upset thinking you were claiming truth. I like it when things are nice and clear. Any time I can help just ask.

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charlou
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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by charlou » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:27 am

Scientist Laura Waters writes a piece about why she's an equalist and not a feminist: http://www.theguardian.com/higher-educa ... t-feminist

The response a week later from scientist and feminist Andrew Holding: http://www.theguardian.com/science/the- ... 6/feminism

This quote was posted on Facebook earlier today ...
Andrew Holding wrote:If you think feminism is a dirty word, or some kind of female 'supremacist' movement, you've been had. This slippery-slope sensationalism is the same old dirty trick we see when anti-equality campaigners make ridiculous arguments about marrying their sons in an effort to stop marriage equality, or suggest that giving all genders an equal chance in life is some how going to lead to the oppression of men. It's ridiculous, and those who protest are typically those who have the most to lose from equality.
Laura Waters didn't say she thinks feminism is a dirty word or some kind of 'supremacist' movement. I didn't find her article sensationalist at all. I didn't see her using any dirty tricks, but rather stating why she considers herself an equalist.
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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Aug 06, 2013 8:37 am

Feminists are equalists.

eta: After reading the article, I can see why the second person has had a bit of a crack at her. The real problem is that she assumes that there is a difference between being a feminist and wanting equality. There's no difference at all, so why is she making this distinction? Why does she not like the word "feminist"? She clearly has a problem with feminism if she is making the distinction between it and wanting equality.
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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by rachelbean » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:08 am

No, she doesn't "clearly" have a problem with feminism at all since you yourself said if feminism = equalism. What it can be inferred is that she has a problem with is the connotations or attachments for most people that the word feminism carries with it.
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Re:

Post by Cormac » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:09 am

fishie wrote:
Seth wrote:
fishie wrote:
Seth wrote:
fishie wrote: And you know all this because?
I have the capacity to think and use logic and reason to prevail over raw emotion, and do so.

So this is your opinion rather than fact? That includes the last bit about teenage girls?
Oh and in your description of yourself you left out eloquent, smart, handsome and humble.
Thanks for reminding me. Of course that was not an error, I deemed it unnecessary to the conversation, but I appreciate you pointing it out for others.
Why my pleasure Seth, always glad to help. I would hate for anyone to misread anything you had stated, and get upset thinking you were claiming truth. I like it when things are nice and clear. Any time I can help just ask.
Fishie,

Sounds like you'd be able torecognise truth if you saw it. Care to share your secret?
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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by Cormac » Tue Aug 06, 2013 9:17 am

rEvolutionist wrote:Feminists are equalists.

eta: After reading the article, I can see why the second person has had a bit of a crack at her. The real problem is that she assumes that there is a difference between being a feminist and wanting equality. There's no difference at all, so why is she making this distinction? Why does she not like the word "feminist"? She clearly has a problem with feminism if she is making the distinction between it and wanting equality.

Because, the feminist movement is no longer about "equality" (which is an ill-defined, all things to all people word anyway), but has now accreted so much additional ideological and political baggage, that it is no longer possible to claim that it is synonymous with what now seems to be called "equalism".

And this happened a long time ago, actually. It had already happened when I studied feminism in my undergraduate from 92-96.

This is unfortunate, but raining against this is as futile as me railing against the replacement of the word "sex" with the word "gender". It is logical, worthy, and consistent with the prior usage. But it is futile.
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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:18 am

rachelbean wrote:No, she doesn't "clearly" have a problem with feminism at all since you yourself said if feminism = equalism.
That's a non-sequitur. What I think about feminism vs equalism has non bearing on what she thinks of feminism vs equalism. She most certainly doesn't equate them, and makes it clear that she thinks feminism isn't about equality. Therefore, it is only reasonable to assume she thinks of feminism as a negative ideology.
What it can be inferred is that she has a problem with is the connotations or attachments for most people that the word feminism carries with it.
"most people"? Is there a survey getting about? Either way, feminism doesn't equal the connotations. Hence why the guy's critique of what she said was justified (if a little hyperbolic).
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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:21 am

Cormac wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Feminists are equalists.

eta: After reading the article, I can see why the second person has had a bit of a crack at her. The real problem is that she assumes that there is a difference between being a feminist and wanting equality. There's no difference at all, so why is she making this distinction? Why does she not like the word "feminist"? She clearly has a problem with feminism if she is making the distinction between it and wanting equality.

Because, the feminist movement is no longer about "equality" (which is an ill-defined, all things to all people word anyway), but has now accreted so much additional ideological and political baggage, that it is no longer possible to claim that it is synonymous with what now seems to be called "equalism".
This just begs the question as to what is "equalism"? If equality in feminism is an ill-defined concept, then how is it any clearer in "equalism"? And what are you basing your claim on that feminism is no longer about "equality"?
This is unfortunate, but raining against this is as futile as me railing against the replacement of the word "sex" with the word "gender". It is logical, worthy, and consistent with the prior usage. But it is futile.
I don't know what you are saying here.
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"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by Cormac » Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:57 am

rEvolutionist wrote:
Cormac wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Feminists are equalists.

eta: After reading the article, I can see why the second person has had a bit of a crack at her. The real problem is that she assumes that there is a difference between being a feminist and wanting equality. There's no difference at all, so why is she making this distinction? Why does she not like the word "feminist"? She clearly has a problem with feminism if she is making the distinction between it and wanting equality.

Because, the feminist movement is no longer about "equality" (which is an ill-defined, all things to all people word anyway), but has now accreted so much additional ideological and political baggage, that it is no longer possible to claim that it is synonymous with what now seems to be called "equalism".
This just begs the question as to what is "equalism"? If equality in feminism is an ill-defined concept, then how is it any clearer in "equalism"? And what are you basing your claim on that feminism is no longer about "equality"?
This is unfortunate, but raining against this is as futile as me railing against the replacement of the word "sex" with the word "gender". It is logical, worthy, and consistent with the prior usage. But it is futile.
"Equalism is an all things to all people ill-defined notion", but it has taken over from the former meaning of "feminism", or has gathered that into its less than clear self.

But "feminism" has come to mean something else and insisting that it still has its former meaning is futile. As futile as when I get annoyed by the modern usage of the word "gender" to mean something more than merely a grammatical disposition.

Feminism is no longer about equality, in my view. (Whatever equality means).

I don't know what you are saying here.
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fishie
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Re: Re:

Post by fishie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 11:12 am

fishie wrote:
Seth wrote:
fishie wrote:
Seth wrote:
fishie wrote: And you know all this because?
I have the capacity to think and use logic and reason to prevail over raw emotion, and do so.

So this is your opinion rather than fact? That includes the last bit about teenage girls?
Oh and in your description of yourself you left out eloquent, smart, handsome and humble.
Thanks for reminding me. Of course that was not an error, I deemed it unnecessary to the conversation, but I appreciate you pointing it out for others.
Why my pleasure Seth, always glad to help. I would hate for anyone to misread anything you had stated, and get upset thinking you were claiming truth. I like it when things are nice and clear. Any time I can help just ask.
Fishie,

Sounds like you'd be able torecognise truth if you saw it. Care to share your secret?[/quote]
Now where did I say that? I simply asked if a statement was an opinion or fact. Answer seemed to indicate opinion. As i was not sure (hence the need to ask) I am pleased that that has been cleared up. You read much into my words that is not there. Its understandable, as we are new besties. The longer you know me the more you will come to understand that I am a simple fishie. What ya see is what ya get. Not that complicated.

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Re: Re:

Post by Cormac » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:49 pm

fishie wrote: Now where did I say that? I simply asked if a statement was an opinion or fact. Answer seemed to indicate opinion. As i was not sure (hence the need to ask) I am pleased that that has been cleared up. You read much into my words that is not there. Its understandable, as we are new besties. The longer you know me the more you will come to understand that I am a simple fishie. What ya see is what ya get. Not that complicated.
:)

Can you do me a favour? Will you learn to use the quote function?

A few times to date I've started to read what I thought was your post, thinking to myself, "this is a remarkably astute and charming person", only to realise I was reading my own words.

When I divided your post from mine, obviously, I still felt yours indicated an equally astute and charming person, but it wasn't quite as familiar...

I think part of the problem might be that you're not scrolling down far enough below the {/quote}, while adding one too many.
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fishie
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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by fishie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:14 pm

Cormac wrote:
fishie wrote: Now where did I say that? I simply asked if a statement was an opinion or fact. Answer seemed to indicate opinion. As i was not sure (hence the need to ask) I am pleased that that has been cleared up. You read much into my words that is not there. Its understandable, as we are new besties. The longer you know me the more you will come to understand that I am a simple fishie. What ya see is what ya get. Not that complicated.
:)

Can you do me a favour? Will you learn to use the quote function?

A few times to date I've started to read what I thought was your post, thinking to myself, "this is a remarkably astute and charming person", only to realise I was reading my own words.

When I divided your post from mine, obviously, I still felt yours indicated an equally astute and charming person, but it wasn't quite as familiar...

I think part of the problem might be that you're not scrolling down far enough below the {/quote}, while adding one too many.
But I have been using the quote function. I'm on tapatalk, does that matter? Still, somehow I bugger 'em up. Lets have a play shall we?

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Re: "If you dislike feminism ... "

Post by fishie » Tue Aug 06, 2013 1:17 pm

Cormac wrote:
fishie wrote: Now where did I say that? I simply asked if a statement was an opinion or fact. Answer seemed to indicate opinion. As i was not sure (hence the need to ask) I am pleased that that has been cleared up. You read much into my words that is not there. Its understandable, as we are new besties. The longer you know me the more you will come to understand that I am a simple fishie. What ya see is what ya get. Not that complicated.
:)

Can you do me a favour? Will you learn to use the quote function?

A few times to date I've started to read what I thought was your post, thinking to myself, "this is a remarkably astute and charming person", only to realise I was reading my own words.

When I divided your post from mine, obviously, I still felt yours indicated an equally astute and charming person, but it wasn't quite as familiar...

I think part of the problem might be that you're not scrolling down far enough below the {/quote}, while adding one too many.
Now that's strange, on tapa it looks ok my end. How's this look on pooter proper?
(Two astute charming people? In the one place? We must be besties :D)

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