Is this racist?

[Tyrannical]

Dog breeds and their well known behavior patterns proves that behavior can be genetic. Culture by a reward (rich! ) / punishment (executed! ) feedback can shape behavioral genetics. Just as people through natural selection adapt to their environment, they adapt to their culture.
And that is the scary truth why racists like me are scientifically correct and multiculturalism is doomed to failure

Racists are yet to prove that general differences in behaviour between any two societies are genetically rather than culturally determined.

Well, when the environment has been equalized and differences have still been shown I don't know what other explanation there is.

[FBM]

Dog breeds and their well known behavior patterns proves that behavior can be genetic. Culture by a reward (rich! ) / punishment (executed! ) feedback can shape behavioral genetics. Just as people through natural selection adapt to their environment, they adapt to their culture.
And that is the scary truth why racists like me are scientifically correct and multiculturalism is doomed to failure

Racists are yet to prove that general differences in behaviour between any two societies are genetically rather than culturally determined.

Well, when the environment has been equalized and differences have still been shown I don't know what other explanation there is.

Tyr seems to be trapped by a tangle of logical fallacies: a simple false analogy - the behavior of other species compared to the human, despite their differences far outweighing their similarities - argumentum ad populum (which I pointed out in the "I hate white peope" thread), argument from induction, etc etc. In short, he wants to be a member of the superior race and will bend the data (or ignore it, or point to non-existent data) in an ad hoc fashion in order to satisfy his narcissistic desire for supremacy. But it seems that there has always been a minority of people who adopt that approach to understanding the world around them. Only a very, very few take it to the point of a Hitler, Stalin or even a Breivik. I don't think Tyr is one of those, bless his heart.

[maiforpeace]

Just a note about the Jewish thing specifically.

A lot of people are 'cultural' Jews so identifying as a Jewish person doesn't necessarily mean they are religious. I see nothing wrong with someone pointing this out about themselves, even if it is religiously based. It does help to understand where they came from, customs they follow, the humor they enjoy. etc.

I'd be more likely to get to know someone a little better before I just dismiss them for identifying themselves with a group. For example. My sister is Vietnamese and German. But she adored everything American Indian...the traditions, the spiritualism - she identified with them, and would go to Pow Wow's and Sweat Lodges and was often mistaken for being American Indian because of it.

[Coito ergo sum]

Just a note about the Jewish thing specifically.

A lot of people are 'cultural' Jews so identifying as a Jewish person doesn't necessarily mean they are religious. I see nothing wrong with someone pointing this out about themselves, even if it is religiously based. It does help to understand where they came from, customs they follow, the humor they enjoy. etc.

I'd be more likely to get to know someone a little better before I just dismiss them for identifying themselves with a group. For example. My sister is Vietnamese and German. But she adored everything American Indian...the traditions, the spiritualism - she identified with them, and would go to Pow Wow's and Sweat Lodges and was often mistaken for being American Indian because of it.

She should apply to become a Harvard professor. I hear that helps.

[Drewish]

Are you saying it's not okay for me to disagree with racists?

No, I'm saying that if you are going to scorn people for speaking frankly about their opinions if they are racist and not looking to change them and you find my views racist (both things that you have said) then I don't see the point in my discussing this with you.

I don't understand you, Andrew.

I'm a "unique snowflake"

[Warren Dew]

I don't understand you, Andrew. Who's talking about whether or not it's okay to disagree? I'm just saying that I don't feel any compunction writing off someone's racist views as shameful if they're not looking to address their racist views. In that case, they're not looking to examine their viewpoint-- so why should I?

Why should you examine their racist viewpoint, or why should you examine your own nonracist viewpoint?

[Warren Dew]

In short, he wants to be a member of the superior race and will bend the data (or ignore it, or point to non-existent data) in an ad hoc fashion in order to satisfy his narcissistic desire for supremacy.

I've rarely seen anyone provide any actual data against Tyrannical's position. I've provided a little, but the fact is, there's little scientific data on the subject at all.

[Blind groper]

About Tyrannical's position.
Genome studies have revealed that the genetic difference between a man and his neighbour is about 0.1%. That is, 99.9% of their genes are common.

The genetic difference between the average African and the average European is also 0.1%. Average - because there is a difference between genes associated with being individual and genes associated with being part of a specific population group. Even 0.1% can, of course, be significant. But it is a tiny level of significance compared to the genetic difference between species, or even sub species.

So, to argue that one 'race' is superior to another by means of genetic difference, is to ascribe one hell of a lot of significance to a very small set of genes. Different 'races' are characterised much more by genetic similarity than genetic difference.

On the other hand, when it comes to human behaviour and human culture, there are numerous examples showing how incredibly pliable it is. For example : cross cultural adoptions, in which a person from one 'race' is adopted as a baby by a person from another, and that baby grows up to be a fully integrated member of the adopted culture. Many such adoptees in European cultures grow up to become scientists, doctors, lawyers etc. When you see this, it makes the idea that one 'race' is somehow inferior by genes, seem to be incredibly stupid.

[hadespussercats]

I don't understand you, Andrew. Who's talking about whether or not it's okay to disagree? I'm just saying that I don't feel any compunction writing off someone's racist views as shameful if they're not looking to address their racist views. In that case, they're not looking to examine their viewpoint-- so why should I?

Why should you examine their racist viewpoint, or why should you examine your own nonracist viewpoint?

The former. Though I've admitted in this thread that I can be racist sometimes. I try not to be.

[Svartalf]

Shut up woman/dirty Jew/Mohammedan heathen/moron/frigging lesbian/whudevah... why be racist when you have gender, religion, personal habits, and any number of features to base contempt, disgust and insults on?

[hadespussercats]

I don't understand you, Andrew. Who's talking about whether or not it's okay to disagree? I'm just saying that I don't feel any compunction writing off someone's racist views as shameful if they're not looking to address their racist views. In that case, they're not looking to examine their viewpoint-- so why should I?

Why should you examine their racist viewpoint, or why should you examine your own nonracist viewpoint?

The former. Though I've admitted in this thread that I can be racist sometimes. I try not to be.

I feel I should reiterate/flesh out a notion I sketched earlier, that seems to have fallen by the wayside-- there is the possibility that someone could claim to be racist, and have a compelling or unusual argument as to why their racist views are in fact positive. 'Yes, I can be racist sometimes, but I don't think that's a bad thing, and here's why..."

I might not agree with said person, but I'd be more inclined to want to have a discussion with him or her, with an ear open to the possibility that by being willing to confront a social taboo they've figured out something worthwhile.

This circumstance is a bit different from dealing with someone who's entrenched in traditional racism, is satisfied with his or her narrow, stereotypical, exclusive, or hateful views, and has no desire to change.

[FBM]

In short, he wants to be a member of the superior race and will bend the data (or ignore it, or point to non-existent data) in an ad hoc fashion in order to satisfy his narcissistic desire for supremacy.

I've rarely seen anyone provide any actual data against Tyrannical's position. I've provided a little, but the fact is, there's little scientific data on the subject at all.

He alleges that there are data about insects and birds that supports his hypothesis that we humans are all racist and there's nothing we can do about it. I asked him to present some of that relevant data, but he got very busy in another thread all of a sudden. Like I said, it's his claim, he's the one that's got a position statement to defend. I'm willing to be convinced by empirical data and necessary inference, but not by one person's emotional preference. Or a group's emotional preference, no matter how large the group.

[Robert_S]

In short, he wants to be a member of the superior race and will bend the data (or ignore it, or point to non-existent data) in an ad hoc fashion in order to satisfy his narcissistic desire for supremacy.

I've rarely seen anyone provide any actual data against Tyrannical's position. I've provided a little, but the fact is, there's little scientific data on the subject at all.

He alleges that there are data about insects and birds that supports his hypothesis that we humans are all racist and there's nothing we can do about it. I asked him to present some of that relevant data, but he got very busy in another thread all of a sudden. Like I said, it's his claim, he's the one that's got a position statement to defend. I'm willing to be convinced by empirical data and necessary inference, but not by one person's emotional preference. Or a group's emotional preference, no matter how large the group.

If enough people believe that we cannot get over racism then we probably won't. Your refusal to accept Tyrannical's assertion in this thread is actually making it ever so slightly more likely that he will be proven wrong by history one day. That's cheating isn't it?

[Drewish]

I don't understand you, Andrew. Who's talking about whether or not it's okay to disagree? I'm just saying that I don't feel any compunction writing off someone's racist views as shameful if they're not looking to address their racist views. In that case, they're not looking to examine their viewpoint-- so why should I?

Why should you examine their racist viewpoint, or why should you examine your own nonracist viewpoint?

The former. Though I've admitted in this thread that I can be racist sometimes. I try not to be.

I feel I should reiterate/flesh out a notion I sketched earlier, that seems to have fallen by the wayside-- there is the possibility that someone could claim to be racist, and have a compelling or unusual argument as to why their racist views are in fact positive. 'Yes, I can be racist sometimes, but I don't think that's a bad thing, and here's why..."

I might not agree with said person, but I'd be more inclined to want to have a discussion with him or her, with an ear open to the possibility that by being willing to confront a social taboo they've figured out something worthwhile.

This circumstance is a bit different from dealing with someone who's entrenched in traditional racism, is satisfied with his or her narrow, stereotypical, exclusive, or hateful views, and has no desire to change.

That sounds much more reasonable than what you were saying earlier.

[FBM]

If enough people believe that we cannot get over racism then we probably won't. Your refusal to accept Tyrannical's assertion in this thread is actually making it ever so slightly more likely that he will be proven wrong by history one day. That's cheating isn't it?

Yes, I think so.