Is trust the basis of friendship?

[Feck]

I would not say that I trust my friends , but I do know them well ,this means Trust per se is not really the most important thing in
my relationships.
Other than that I think I agree with Pappa

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I have friends I would never lend money to.
I have friends I would never disclose secrets to unless I wanted the whole town to know.
I have friends that I cannot rely on to remember a promise, turn up on time, turn up at all.
I have friends that I wouldn't want to introduce to other friends.
I have friends that would probably say some or all of the above about me!

I don't think that trust is the basis of friendship. I think that some degree of trust is necessary for a close and successful friendship but I think that the need to befriend is more fundamental than that. Trust is an add-on rather than the core program.

[CJ]

Sorry to be the bringer of nihilistic tidings, but I think friendship (and human relationships in general) as based not on trust, but reciprocal need. We have the friends we have because we get something out of them. We are almost certainly not aware of what we need or what they give us, but I'm pretty sure that in each case, that's what happens.

Once friend may fulfill your need for affection, another for intellectual stimulation, another for self-aggrandizement, another for your need to feel guilty, another for your sense of charity... etc., etc., etc..

I feel what you posit is true and that the need for friendship is to some extent selfish and one takes and gives in any mutual relationship. I would also say that friendship has to be mutually beneficial to both parties or it is exploitation of one by another, which is not friendship. I would also suggest that 'need' is what causes us to seek friendship in others but trust nurtures and sustains the friendship. A slight difference of subject I think?

However a relationship can be based on mutual need and trust but not necessarily be a friendship. The relationships I had with most of my earlier playmates was initially of that nature. The seeking out of others who had a shared interest/need/desire, all be it two very different sides of the coin as it were. Some of those relationships became friendships others didn't and the friendships grew where we had other mutual interests that we found in each other. The relationships stayed at the physical/psychological level if there was nothing else to sustain them. Also in these relationships the trust was much more physical than emotional in nature, possibly. More to think on there.

[CJ]

I would not say that I trust my friends , but I do know them well ,this means Trust per se is not really the most important thing in
my relationships.
Other than that I think I agree with Pappa

My emphasis above.

Okay turn the question around and see what happens. Can one have a friend that one does not trust at least to some extent? Hmmmm? Could one have a friend who's behaviour towards you was completely unpredictable and sometimes verged on or became positivity nasty?

[Pappa]

I would not say that I trust my friends , but I do know them well ,this means Trust per se is not really the most important thing in
my relationships.
Other than that I think I agree with Pappa

My emphasis above.

Okay turn the question around and see what happens. Can one have a friend that one does not trust at least to some extent? Hmmmm? Could one have a friend who's behaviour towards you was completely unpredictable and sometimes verged on or became positivity nasty?

I'd say no.... unless that's what you desired from your friend. For nearly everyone the answer would be no, I think.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

I would not say that I trust my friends , but I do know them well ,this means Trust per se is not really the most important thing in
my relationships.
Other than that I think I agree with Pappa

My emphasis above.

Okay turn the question around and see what happens. Can one have a friend that one does not trust at least to some extent? Hmmmm? Could one have a friend who's behaviour towards you was completely unpredictable and sometimes verged on or became positivity nasty?

Could one work with someone whose behaviour towards you was completely unpredictable and sometimes verged on or became positivity nasty? I think that trusting someone to a minimum degree is essential if one is to have any kind of a relationship with them, be that relationship friendly, professional, sexual, or whatever. Friendship is something else. Which is why I said that trust, while important, is not the basis of friendship. I have had work colleagues that I would trust a lot more than many of my friends (in some respects) but they were still merely colleagues.

[Feck]

Could one have a friend who's behaviour towards you was completely unpredictable and sometimes verged on or became positivity nasty?

I think that is what is known technically as a "wife"....

It's only so funny cos it's true .

And CJ yes I think you can be friends with people who are unpredictable , downright nasty or vicious towards you, no thats not the sort of people you need in your life (unless you happen to be in love with them, then rationality goes out the door )

[The Curious Squid]

It is trust - but trusting in what sense? Often it's trusting the person to not be judgmental of us - knowing we can reveal intimate things without fear of being criticised for who we fundamentally are. There is trust that we will be respected enough to have those intimate revelations of self kept private, and that the person will not run screaming away in rejection when we have made ourselves vulnerable to them.

The trust develops secondarily once we've made a more superficial connection with someone based on common interests and personalities that jive well together. The crossing of that hurdle from acquaintance to true friend lies is in the demonstration of trust, of testing the waters incrementally and having favourable reactions.

Spot on Bella

Common ground was the thing I was going to mention.

I find that having similar interests or at least something to relate to in people is where the friendship starts. There are some people who I trust but are not my friends as such.

[The Curious Squid]

A thoughtful topic, CJ ...

I'd say the foundation of friendship includes trust, empathy and honest communication.


Thrust ... mmmyes, that's pretty friendly too.

Honest communication engenders trust and visa versa. Can empathy be improved by trust and honest communication or is it an innate quality of an individual such as intelligence? If it is an innate quality can it be exploited as intelligence can be by education or is one stuck with what one is dealt with as a child? And I don't really want to get into a debate about intelligence and education I'll just using that as an example. Can one become more empathic through training or experience? As some people naturally more empathic than others?

I can't remember where I read this (therefore it's accuracy is by no means assured) but I've heard that reading fiction or biographical works can help someone gain empathy since by it's nature these kinds of media place you in the mind of someone else and let you better understand how people with differing mindsets can draw different conclusions about the world. As I said, I'm not sure if it's true or not but I can see how it could work.

If it is the case then I'm hopeful for our descendants since with the rapid growth of technology they are now in a position where it is almost impossible to be absorbed in other people's tales through TV, Video Games, Books and Internet forums

[RESiNATE]

The trust develops secondarily once we've made a more superficial connection with someone based on common interests and personalities that jive well together. The crossing of that hurdle from acquaintance to true friend lies is in the demonstration of trust, of testing the waters incrementally and having favourable reactions.

Excellently put

Honest communication engenders trust and visa versa. Can empathy be improved by trust and honest communication or is it an innate quality of an individual such as intelligence?

On the first bit, CJ, I agree wholeheartedly.
I also think that empathy can be 'improved', but believe that it is largely innate and can be linked with perception.

I am (have been told that I am) a very perceptive person - I am very good at 'reading' people and situations to the point of 'prediction'. As such, I seem able to enjoy gaining the trust of people fairly quickly. I think it harks back to your point about honest communication. I can count my friends on one hand and still have enough fingers left to tell the others to...go away lol.

I think that the trust that you speak of covers many levels.
There is obviously that trust that guards a shared secret, but there is also that trust that allows us to say those things that must be said in order to help our friends. I know in my heart that the friends that I have can (and do) say things that might cause offence in order to progress. I too have done such things with them. I have a friend that has serious issues with the past that curtails his progress in the present; we had a blazing row a few months ago during which I had to really lay things on the line to him. I ended up having to leave when some of the things he said in return were quite absurd and hurtful to me. I had only gotten 5 minutes up the road when I received an apologetic text from him - I didn't return because I deemed the situation needed a day's worth of cooling down...for which he thanked me for when I admitted this to him. However, he visited me the next day and we sorted things out; progress was made and we moved on. That's the sign of a true friendship, I think.

Sorry to be the bringer of nihilistic tidings, but I think friendship (and human relationships in general) as based not on trust, but reciprocal need. We have the friends we have because we get something out of them. We are almost certainly not aware of what we need or what they give us, but I'm pretty sure that in each case, that's what happens.

I have to agree most emphatically, Pappa; the circle of (three) friends that I have all 'serve' different 'purposes', and I am confident in saying that I 'serve' them towards their 'needs'.
Each of them have very different personalities that endear them to me, yet when together we 'bounce off' of each other in a harmonious way. I can rely on one friend to share my most intimate of thoughts, whilst another shares my enjoyment in playing video games, and the third works with me in overcoming depression by being as childish as I am. All of them can entrust their lives with me, as I can them.

the need for friendship is to some extent selfish and one takes and gives in any mutual relationship. I would also say that friendship has to be mutually beneficial to both parties or it is exploitation of one by another, which is not friendship.

Well said

I have had work colleagues that I would trust a lot more than many of my friends (in some respects) but they were still merely colleagues.

But, how have they earned your trust?
Is it in their responsibility to their profession (i.e., a crane operator) that commands your trust in them, or has it been gained through understanding their personas and ideals?
(PS: I noted your 'unpronouncable name' comment...is it Ya-mon-us Shay-gow-ay? just out of interest, you understand...I like to think I'm pretty good at pronunciation lol)

Much like leo-rcc:

...my trust got betrayed in the worst possible way...

My proclaimed perceptive skill is fallible, having also had my trust abused, but if anything it has 'honed' my skill further; 'once bitten...' and all that. It is sad when people whose trust has been betrayed in such a way begin to mistrust everyone to the point of solitude.

In my opinion, if there is no trust there can be no friendship - it becomes a case of acquaintance. Maybe an acquaintance of necessity - a means to an end - is the worst kind of 'friendship'. A hypocritical excercise of which both parties are guilty of abuse of trust?

Res...

[Achtland]

does that mean that there are people who you know only on here, never met them face to face, that you could call a friend?
can you know someone without reading there facial expressions?

[The Curious Squid]

I'm reluctant to call people I haven't met friends but despite my reservations it's happened a few times on here. I'd say I was friends with Bella long before I met her in person. I've yet to meet JeniTyridail but I consider her a friemd and even although we haven't spoken in a few weeks because of my laziness and his stubbornness about posting here I consider JasonK a friend and miss him a lot. There are a few more who I would consider friends and even more people who I know I would see as a friend if I ever met them.

Meeting someone in person does without a doubt speed up the process though since I wouldn't have said that Mrenutt4 and I were particularly friendly on here before Edinburgh but now he's one of the posters I look forward to reading about the most even if his chilli did have me glued to the toilet for 15 minutes last night

[Feck]

Friends you havn't met ...of course ! I think I have a couple of friends amongst the Ratz that I havn't met in person,Do I TRUST them?
It's not a question of trust , little in our exchanges requires TRUST . You have no real idea until you do trust someone if they are trustworthy , and that is not a global trust .There are people that I would trust with my girlfriend(when I had such things )or a million £ but no way would I let them take Feck to the shops .

[The Curious Squid]

Friends you havn't met ...of course ! I think I have a couple of friends amongst the Ratz that I havn't met in person,Do I TRUST them?
It's not a question of trust , little in our exchanges requires TRUST . You have no real idea until you do trust someone if they are trustworthy , and that is not a global trust .There are people that I would trust with my girlfriend(when I had such things )or a million £ but no way would I let them take Feck to the shops .

I'd never ask to take Feck to the shops so we're all good

[Achtland]

yeh those A frame signs jump out at you in **********, Aberdeen