The value of the concept of "virginity"

[Chinaski]

I was thinking about this right now, and it seems to me that the idea of virginity is as irrelevant and inconsequential as the concept of a first hangover. It seems to me to be nothing more than a remnant of Christian tradition, that the fact that Mary was a virgin somehow makes virginity an important value.

Any thoughts? Anyone disagree with me? How important could virginity be?

[charlou]

Yeah, good topic ...

To me it's not important in any objective sense. It's just another thing people have ascribed value to, in order to define a person in a certain way. I think the basis for it is crappy inconsequential morality.

[Pappa]

Well, it is important in the sense of demarking something that children should be, but I do see your point. What's the sense in categorising a 43 year old man as a virgin or non-virgin?

[Gawdzilla Sama]

"It's a wise child who knows his father." In these days of DNA testing that's a little silly, but before the tests only the mother could know for sure (or fairly sure.) So a virgin was a way for men to "guarantee" that the children they were raising was their own. Sorta, kinda, anyway.

Today, virginity is strange concept, as noted by FS.

[FBM]

Since I've been in Korea, I've been gifted with two 'deflowering' experiences. In both cases, the girl took it in stride as a natural event in their lives. No drama or earth-moving significance. In my experience so far, Asian cultures seem to have a much more down-to-earth, no BS approach to the human body, its functions and drives. It's assumed to be perfectly natural and the only stigma attached to losing one's virginity is social in nature, not what we would consider 'moral' in the sense of our Judeo-Christian-based moral structure. Most of the significance that attribute to the event is fabricated. Men are encouraged by bravado to get it on as soon as possible, while women are encouraged to remain 'pure' as long as possible. It's irrational BS that needs to be eradicated in light of common sense, IMO.

...What's the sense in categorising a 43 year old man as a virgin or non-virgin?

You, uh, wouldn't happen to be 43, would you? Just askin'.

[Hermit]

The most common way of viewing the concept of virginity is thoroughly reprehensible to me. It is typified by Maurice Chevalier in a movie called Gigi. He likens the virginity of a girl (of course it is a girl!) to an unused match. Then he strikes the match, blows it out (no pun intended. really.) and says words to the effect that just like a match that has been used, the value of a young woman (again, no mention of what happens to a young man under those circumstances) that has had sex is irretrievably and utterly lost. The movie was made in 1958, but this attitude continues to this day in many places and social strata.

Rather than regarding the change of "status" as a loss, I prefer to think of it (assuming informed consent) as a gain - a gain in pleasure, trust and togetherness.

[Chinaski]

Men are encouraged by bravado to get it on as soon as possible, while women are encouraged to remain 'pure' as long as possible.

That's what I find extremely annoying about the whole thing. My Norwegian ex took months to work over enough to finally even let me finger her, ffs. The whole "I'm just not ready yet" is a direct byproduct of giving value to virginity. Sex doesn't mean anything on its own, it means what it means for the people involved at that one instance.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

The amount of times I have heard a middle-aged woman say, "If I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't have bothered waiting so long!"

Even my xtian mother has been known to come out with that one on occasion. She dated/was engaged to my dad for years before they married and they both waited until their wedding night (OK. They both say they waited!)

It is a sick twisted joke on our race that there is a physical demonstration of female virginity but none for males. Without the hymen, things would be a lot more relaxed - especially with readily available contraception.

[FBM]

Men are encouraged by bravado to get it on as soon as possible, while women are encouraged to remain 'pure' as long as possible.

That's what I find extremely annoying about the whole thing. My Norwegian ex took months to work over enough to finally even let me finger her, ffs. The whole "I'm just not ready yet" is a direct byproduct of giving value to virginity. Sex doesn't mean anything on its own, it means what it means for the people involved at that one instance.

Indeed. I've been in similar relationships. Really, though, throughout life I've had to learn how to become comfortable with the give-and-take that's required in just about any relationship, private or professional. Naturally, I think the way I see the world is 'right' and if someone else's take on things doesn't mesh with mine, I tend to think that they've got it wrong somehow. In reality, there is no absolute 'right', so the only thing to do, AFAICT, is to develop patience, sympathy and the ability to see things from the others' perspective. IOW, to deal with things the way they actually are, rather than the way I think they ought to be. The more I developed those aspects of myself, the less stress and conflict I've encountered. It takes time, but as a result, I've had progressively more harmonious relationships with, incidentally, an easier time progressing to sexual expression of those relationships.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Without the hymen, things would be a lot more relaxed - especially with readily available contraception.

I think the hymen was just a way to try to verify virginity, and took on value because of that.

[Chinaski]

That's why I'm gonna try to avoid girls younger than me from now on. Have to find me a 20+ girl

[Gawdzilla Sama]

That's why I'm gonna try to avoid girls younger than me from now on. Have to find me a 20+ girl

"Marrying a girl who's not a virgin is like sitting on a warm toilet seat. It doesn't feel bad, but you can't help wondering whose been there before you. "

[Chinaski]

That's why I'm gonna try to avoid girls younger than me from now on. Have to find me a 20+ girl

"Marrying a girl who's not a virgin is like sitting on a warm toilet seat. It doesn't feel bad, but you can't help wondering whose been there before you. "

Who's talking about marriage? I just wanna relationship with someone who won't make me wait months for sex.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

That's why I'm gonna try to avoid girls younger than me from now on. Have to find me a 20+ girl

"Marrying a girl who's not a virgin is like sitting on a warm toilet seat. It doesn't feel bad, but you can't help wondering whose been there before you. "

Who's talking about marriage? I just wanna relationship with someone who won't make me wait months for sex.

What!? You'd have sex with a girl you weren't planning to marry? :pissed:

[Chinaski]

That's why I'm gonna try to avoid girls younger than me from now on. Have to find me a 20+ girl

"Marrying a girl who's not a virgin is like sitting on a warm toilet seat. It doesn't feel bad, but you can't help wondering whose been there before you. "

Who's talking about marriage? I just wanna relationship with someone who won't make me wait months for sex.

What!? You'd have sex with a girl you weren't planning to marry? :pissed:

Oh I wouldn't stop at sex