Do you craft/choose your thoughts before you have them?

[FBM]

Sorry for the lack of bacon/cheese options, but I'd like this to be serious. I'm curious as to people's perceptions/conceptions of how thoughts arise. Here, I'm limiting 'thoughts' to the internal dialog that goes on inside one's head (assuming we all have one). Are they crafted or chosen pre-reflectively, or do they just arise unbidden? Whether or not we choose/craft our thoughts has important implications on ethics and moral agency.

How do thoughts come into being?

(If you don't like any of the options listed, please say so early on. If I change the options, it wipes out the voting. Only one vote each, you can change your vote.)

[charlou]

I'll give this some thought.



Meanwhile ...

[charlou]

I don't always, but I often choose to think about things, but where my thoughts take me from there on aren't usually chosen, though some of it may be deliberate recall which I guess can be described as chosen.

Even when choosing to think about something, there's a catalyst or a motivator for doing so.

[FBM]

I don't always, but I often choose to think about things, but where my thoughts take me from there on aren't usually chosen, though some of it may be deliberate recall which I guess can be described as chosen.

Even when choosing to think about something, there's a catalyst or a motivator for doing so.

Do you mean an external stimulus or something internal?

[charlou]

I don't always, but I often choose to think about things, but where my thoughts take me from there on aren't usually chosen, though some of it may be deliberate recall which I guess can be described as chosen.

Even when choosing to think about something, there's a catalyst or a motivator for doing so.

Do you mean an external stimulus or something internal?

Ultimately external, whether immediate or remote.

[FBM]

Would you say that some quality in the external stimuli affect whether or not you choose to think about that topic? I wouldn't be random, would it? A triage system?

[charlou]

My neurological response to the external stimuli affects whether or not I think about it and how much thought I give it. This is not choice, it's cause and effect.

That actually belies my earlier statement

but I often choose to think about things

doesn't it.

Though I did follow that with

Even when choosing to think about something, there's a catalyst or a motivator for doing so.

hmmm ...

[NoFreeWill]

Do you craft/choose your thoughts before you have them?

Choosing a thought you involves having a thought. So do you choose to choose to have a thought? How far can this recur? I think thoughts happen "automatically" so I said no.
We are self aware automatons.

[Animavore]

I'm not sure how I can tell if I chose to think a thought or if it just arises naturally though it does feel like I'm choosing the wording of this sentence which I've changed slightly before hitting "submit".

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

I'm not 100% sure what the question means. Are you asking whether we get a feeling, image, diagram (or whatever) and then form that into something more conducive to being conveyed in verbal form - whether internally or externally?
If this is so then, yes. For me, thoughts don't start as words. - they have to be translated.
Some thoughts remain as images etc. and never even make it to any sort of 'language stage' as it were.
Does that make sense?
Is it 'normal'?

[FBM]

Do you craft/choose your thoughts before you have them?

Choosing a thought you involves having a thought. So do you choose to choose to have a thought? How far can this recur? I think thoughts happen "automatically" so I said no.
Well are self aware automatons.

Self-aware automatons. Interesting.

Thanks for voting, btw. You're the only one who has so far.

@ the others:

I'm not sure how I can tell if I chose to think a thought or if it just arises naturally though it does feel like I'm choosing the wording of this sentence which I've changed slightly before hitting "submit".

It does feel that way, doesn't it? But is the feeling an accurate report of the way things are happening? I don't think relying on the feeling is a safe way to go, as there are often feelings that turn out to lead one to erroneous conclusions (certainty bias, etc). I'm at a bit of a loss about it.

[FBM]

I'm not 100% sure what the question means. Are you asking whether we get a feeling, image, diagram (or whatever) and then form that into something more conducive to being conveyed in verbal form - whether internally or externally?
If this is so then, yes. For me, thoughts don't start as words. - they have to be translated.
Some thoughts remain as images etc. and never even make it to any sort of 'language stage' as it were.
Does that make sense?
Is it 'normal'?

I suppose the question looks further back and asks what is the source of volition itself. Is a volitional act preceded by a volitional thought preceded by a volitional choosing/crafting of the thought? Where does volition come from? Is it just an electrochemical activity? If so, how can we be said to choose it? Seems to me that the concept of volition requires an uncaused cause somewhere along the line.

[Animavore]

It does feel that way, doesn't it? But is the feeling an accurate report of the way things are happening? I don't think relying on the feeling is a safe way to go, as there are often feelings that turn out to lead one to erroneous conclusions (certainty bias, etc). I'm at a bit of a loss about it.

I'm not sure how I could tell. I remember when I used to meditate I used to know what I was going to think before I thought it so I wouldn't bother thinking out the thought in my head in words which may take a couple of seconds, call it a pre-thought.The pre-thought did appear to come out automatically but I must've been using another part of the brain to recognise the thought and then stop the "wordy" part of my brain bothering to word it out as surely as you stop yourself speaking as soon as you realise you're going to say something stupid or invidious. Is one part of the brain automatic and bursting with thoughts while another part has more control? I really can't say. And it's too early for this shit.

[JacksSmirkingRevenge]

I think I see what you mean.
It seems to me that a lot of thoughts arise from association with external input or follow naturally from previous thoughts while others (mysteriously) seem completely random and without any cause. - Like that image of a formula 1 tyre with "Goodyear" written on it I just had. No idea where that one came from.









Cheese.

[FBM]

It does feel that way, doesn't it? But is the feeling an accurate report of the way things are happening? I don't think relying on the feeling is a safe way to go, as there are often feelings that turn out to lead one to erroneous conclusions (certainty bias, etc). I'm at a bit of a loss about it.

I'm not sure how I could tell. I remember when I used to meditate I used to know what I was going to think before I thought it so I wouldn't bother thinking out the thought in my head in words which may take a couple of seconds, call it a pre-thought.The pre-thought did appear to come out automatically but I must've been using another part of the brain to recognise the thought and then stop the "wordy" part of my brain bothering to word it out as surely as you stop yourself speaking as soon as you realise you're going to say something stupid or invidious. Is one part of the brain automatic and bursting with thoughts while another part has more control? I really can't say. And it's too early for this shit.

I do the same thing in meditation. I stop my conscious thoughts and watch what happens. It seems to make some volition disappear for me. At least sometimes. But a certain sense of volition still persists in the sense that I feel as if I'm choosing to make my volition disappear. Odd conundrum, that.

Have a cuppa and come back when you're up to it.