Slaughtering and eating cats (NSFW?)

[leo-rcc]

Ahem. You missed the bit where I said "Yes, the difference I'm talking about is the cerebral cortex. It enables us to transcend the scope of what other animals can do because no other animals have one."

So far I've its been at least twice that I've seen you use animals without the use of the word other, which specially in this context to me seems important enough to nitpick over, as it implies setting humans outside the animal realm. It might be an unintentional oversight, but I feel it is important enough to point out.

[charlou]

The cerebral cortex is not just an element of human makeup, but of broader vertebrate physiology. Humans are mammals with an evolved capability to extend our cerebral cortex further than other mammals/animals. This capability includes and manifests as language and motor skills, both requiring refined adaptations of the body in conjunction with the brain.

I see this as a notable difference and sets us apart (in the same way the ability to fly sets some animals apart), but not 'transcension' beyond being 'just animal'.

[lordpasternack]

Earthworms are perfectly edible if soaked in water overnight, by the way.

Imagine people going through a fastfood drive-through and ordering a bucket of bugs and being asked "would you like worms with that?" ... "Oh, goody ... and supersize it, too!  :drool: ".

No need - we have really good veggie burgers! And some shellfish probably have similar sentience to worms and are already nom…

Other than that, I think culture plays a strong part in what you view as food. In many fast food stalls in other countries they sell dishes made of grasshoppers, grubs, maggots, and you name it - which customers quite happily wolf down… And, in the words of this BBC food blog: "Those who practise entomophagy (insect-eating) like to point out that 80% of the world's people eat insects intentionally and 100% eat them unintentionally."

And here's the story, with pictures, of one such fast food vendor:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/p ... html/1.stm

Areerat Jantao is one of the many food vendors plying their trade on the streets of Bangkok.
Her fare - fried insects - may not be to everyone’s tastes, but she certainly has no shortage of customers.

Many of the girls working in Bangkok’s bars and clubs come from northern Thailand, where insects are highly prized for their protein content.

But Areerat’s snacks are also proving popular with Asian and Middle Eastern tourists, and the occasional – usually drunk – Westerner.

So your ironic jest isn't all that ironic or jesting, actually! Culture, culture…

Reducing/eliminating the cruelty of mass meat production ...  Fewer people on the planet eating less food would be a good start.  :ddpan:

Even going "flexitarian" - predominantly vegetarian, eating meat occasionally, would have a marked impact if more people made the effort to alter their lifestyle a little. Since trying to eliminate mammals, fish, birds and some other animals (animals generally not eaten here, anyway) from my diet, I've been struck by how EASY it's been. There are so many honestly delicious vegetarian dishes, and veggie burgers and veggie sausages are pretty good these days. 

Eliminating eggs and dairy is palpably far more difficult - but even there, I've been to vegetarian/vegan joints a few times over the past weeks, and eaten some delicious vegan meals - curries; sausage and onion mash with gravy; haggis, neeps and tatties (turnip and potatoes); veggie burger and spicy chips; full vegan breakfast; cheesecake; sticky toffee pudding; and vanilla ice cream with toffee sauce… And in Starbucks I've been for soy coffees (which taste exactly the same as their dairy equivalent, for the record), and a few falafel paninis… It really is not bad if you know where to go and what to get. Just saying…

Oh, and of course, more people demanding more humane standards (and kicking up shit about unknowingly buying/eating halal slaughtered meat) would also make a difference, of course. 

[tattuchu]

But why do we strive to improve things for ourselves? Pleasure is self indulgence and placates a part of our brain that has evolved to appreciate it.

True. The difference is the cerebral cortex. It enables us to do things animals can't. That's why we have a physical effect on this planet that dwarfs the scale of any animal.

To bring it back on topic,

We can formulate the question: "Should we extend the same instinctual susceptibility to cuteness that we have for cats, dogs and skunks to cows, chickens and fish?"

That's something that other animals cannot do. From one point of view it's not a new thing under the sun, but it is a new arrangement of existing things. That is one example of a more complex self-image map that has a level of abstraction that, I think, is qualitatively different from our nearest neighbors on the tree.

I'm still thinking about how I'm going to back that up though.

Edit: heh, I was slow and Seraph beat me to qualitative bit.

I would draw the line at mammals. Even if I were to follow my conscience and stop eating meat, I don't think I'd have any problem still eating fish and chickens. They're fucking stupid.
Although I did have a hard time eating a lobster once. I had spent an hour of so drawing it as reference for a tattoo, and had become somewhat sympathetic to it in the process. I did cook it, but I couldn't bring myself to eat it. So I guess I wouldn't have any trouble eating the lesser animals, as long as I didn't have to look them in the eye and kill them myself.

[lordpasternack]

Some disabled people are "fucking stupid". Babies (as ever) are in many ways fucking stupid. Would they go well in a casserole, do you think?

[lordpasternack]

Oh, and there's good evidence that pigs are actually arguably smarter than dogs. They have broadly similar traits: they're social animals, capable of learning tricks and performing for their owners, and even herding sheep (I shit you not) - and crucially, they are capable of understanding how mirrors work, to use them to find food (though I don't think they did the full "mirror test" to see if the animal understood its own reflection). 

http://m.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/10 ... d-mirrors/

Cats and dogs are completely stumped by mirrors…

[tattuchu]

Some disabled people are "fucking stupid". Babies (as ever) are in many ways fucking stupid. Would they go well in a casserole, do you think?

You've got a point there. I think they would
But you know I meant that fish and chickens weren't as high on the evolutionary ladder. You gotta draw the line somewhere, so I figure the line should be drawn at mammals. Wait, are birds mammals?

[lordpasternack]

Some disabled people are "fucking stupid". Babies (as ever) are in many ways fucking stupid. Would they go well in a casserole, do you think?

You've got a point there.  I think they would  :drool: 
But you know I meant that fish and chickens weren't as high on the evolutionary ladder.  You gotta draw the line somewhere, so I figure the line should be drawn at mammals.  Wait, are birds mammals?  :ask:

What ladder?

http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2007 ... ladder.php

And no - birds are warm-blooded, and some are demonstrably intelligent - but they're not mammals. 

Parrots and corvids (the family that includes crows, ravens and European magpies) are particularly intelligent families of birds. 

This is a nice David Attenborough clip about crows:



A raven playing with a puzzle:



A European magpie checkin' itself in the mirror:



And a talkin' raven:



Seriously - somebody needs to make a "Corvid Vs Toddler", video…

And we all know the "Corvid Vs Newborn" prequel will just be a complete non-starter.

[charlou]

Some disabled people are "fucking stupid". Babies (as ever) are in many ways fucking stupid. Would they go well in a casserole, do you think?

We're more attached to disabled people and babies than we are to worms. Well, gee wizz, I wonder why.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.p ... 30#p941593

[lordpasternack]

Some disabled people are "fucking stupid". Babies (as ever) are in many ways fucking stupid. Would they go well in a casserole, do you think?

We're more attached to disabled people and babies than we are to worms. Well, gee wizz, I wonder why.

Disabled people and babies are smarter than worms?

[charlou]

Some disabled people are "fucking stupid". Babies (as ever) are in many ways fucking stupid. Would they go well in a casserole, do you think?

We're more attached to disabled people and babies than we are to worms. Well, gee wizz, I wonder why.

Disabled people and babies are smarter than worms?

Not the point. Try again.

[Cormac]

Souls are more nutritious than any physical food stuffs

MMMMmmmmm crunchy goodness.

[Cormac]

Save the guts, they make baroque guitar strings. We have switched to nylon on guitar but you cant bow nylon.

Two cats watching a tennis match.

#1: Great game!

#2: Do you play?

#1: No, but I have an uncle who's in the racquet.

[Cormac]

Famous last words: "I have a cunning plan." In China, and many other countries they slaughter and eat both. Often they severely beat dogs before killing them, because a dog that dies in pain supposedly tastes better.

Beating, strangling, electrocution for allegedly better-tasting meat that enhances male "stamina"...Korea adopted all that woo from China. I wish I could get my hands on the heartless fuckers who do that and give them a taste of what they dish out...

But, the inconvenient truth is, what happens in the "wild" where we come from? Lions eating the hindquarters while the wildebeast is still struggling, killing and eating the offspring of the previous alpha male, our cute lolcats toying with mortally wounded mice, birds, etc etc. There's the reality that is, and there's the moralities that we try to impose on the world. I hate to see unnecessary suffering, but I humbly acknowledge that the way of nature isn't going to change simply to accomodate my sensibilities. To expect that would be the height of arrogance. Humans are animals, no matter how correctly sip our wine and how many electronic gadgets we can devise.

Ah, the real truth about lolcatz peeks out. The truth is that they are vile and evil demons. I'm sure they're part of the Illuminati, and are also part of pushing the disgusting Parsley agenda.