The Ethics of Space Tourism?

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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:25 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:What are you trying to argue, Clinton? It's one thing to be a pessimist, but another to be a CES and argue for argument's sake. Consider the technological changes that have happened in the last 100 years. Consider Moore's law. I put it to you that we haven't even thought of the some of the technology that we will be using in 100 years from now.
Don't disagree. And I am arguing for the sake of it, a bit. I'm a techno-realist rather than wide-eyed techno-optimist. It's too easy to say "space elevators" but there's many a slip twixt cup and lip.
It depends what time frame you are talking about. If you want to say the next 50 years, then I'd probably agree with you. But 100+ years, the bets are all off. Talk about 1000 yrs and anyone trying to predict that we won't have something is talking through their poo shoot. No one knows at that time frame. You can only go by trends, and the trends so far are more or less exponential. Of course, at some point there will be a physical barrier to continued exponential development, and in fact, we are seeing the beginnings of that with transistor size. Regarding the latter, though, once we sort out quantum computing, we'll probably expand knowledge WAY faster than exponential. Translating that into physical technology will be restricted by physical bounds. But it will still be a faster rate than we have acquired technology in the last decade, for example.
1000 years from now and it's more likely that AIs have spread into the galaxy. Humans or anything recognisably human? Less likely, IMO.
It's interesting how you believe in AI, but not in space technology. :ask: There's a number of prominent thinkers who think we will never achieve AI. I happen to think we will, but it's interesting to see your apparent cognitive dissonance in this regard. :tea:
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:26 pm

What's this "we"? We, as in us here, have no stake in this. We will all be dead before any of this stuff materialises. And you know many politicians who will reliably fund something that's "50" years away? Especially if there's a chance it will come to fruition when the other guy is in charge to reap the plaudits?

It's all just so much astro-fetish space fantasy.
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:28 pm

Rev, I reckon AI is another of these "always 50 years away" technologies. It may be AI, it may be genetic footling but I doubt any Human 1.0s will be about in 1000 years.
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:28 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:What's this "we"? We, as in us here, have no stake in this. We will all be dead before any of this stuff materialises. And you know many politicians who will reliably fund something that's "50" years away? Especially if there's a chance it will come to fruition when the other guy is in charge to reap the plaudits?

It's all just so much astro-fetish space fantasy.
Do you even have electricity in your house?
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:29 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:What's this "we"? We, as in us here, have no stake in this. We will all be dead before any of this stuff materialises. And you know many politicians who will reliably fund something that's "50" years away? Especially if there's a chance it will come to fruition when the other guy is in charge to reap the plaudits?

It's all just so much astro-fetish space fantasy.
"We" as in humans, of course. And the question still stands. Why do you think AI will be achievable but not space technology? Is your argument now that it's a political problem?
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:30 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:What's this "we"? We, as in us here, have no stake in this. We will all be dead before any of this stuff materialises. And you know many politicians who will reliably fund something that's "50" years away? Especially if there's a chance it will come to fruition when the other guy is in charge to reap the plaudits?

It's all just so much astro-fetish space fantasy.
Do you even have electricity in your house?
:lol:
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:30 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:What's this "we"? We, as in us here, have no stake in this. We will all be dead before any of this stuff materialises. And you know many politicians who will reliably fund something that's "50" years away? Especially if there's a chance it will come to fruition when the other guy is in charge to reap the plaudits?

It's all just so much astro-fetish space fantasy.
Do you even have electricity in your house?
Probably not for much longer, as the local politicians and businesses have failed to invest in power generation....and the US power grid is just as antiquated.
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:32 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:What's this "we"? We, as in us here, have no stake in this. We will all be dead before any of this stuff materialises.
It's not all about those of us who are breathing today.
Clinton Huxley wrote: And you know many politicians who will reliably fund something that's "50" years away? Especially if there's a chance it will come to fruition when the other guy is in charge to reap the plaudits?
it doesn't have to be funded 50 years away. Go for what can be got. Missile defense, e.g. Moon missions. Bases.
Clinton Huxley wrote:
It's all just so much astro-fetish space fantasy.
Some is, but some is feasible. The things that are deemed feasible ought to be attempted.

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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:35 pm

Coito ergo sum wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:What's this "we"? We, as in us here, have no stake in this. We will all be dead before any of this stuff materialises.
It's not all about those of us who are breathing today.
Socialist.
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:35 pm

Yeah. Even I don't give a fuck about anyone 100 years down the track from now.. :shifty:
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:37 pm

CES, saddling future generations with a massive tax burden. For shame.
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:38 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:Rev, I reckon AI is another of these "always 50 years away" technologies. It may be AI, it may be genetic footling but I doubt any Human 1.0s will be about in 1000 years.
50 years ago, nobody imagined a personal computer that fits in your pocket and which you can talk to and which talks back, and which can make wireless telephone calls and video conferences around the glob instantly with one person sitting in a coffee shop in Rio Branco Brazil and another in a coffee shop in Papua New Guinea, both simultaneously accessing libraries of human knowledge which were completely inaccessible to almost everyone even 20 years ago. That would have been among the things you considered so much fantasy.

However, at the time, certain things were feasible, like the beginnings of satellites and global positioning systems, etc., superconducter technology, solid state electronics....all sorts of smaller bits and pieces.

There is no sense poo-pooing. We don't know what the puzzle will look like in 50 more years, and we'll likely be as wrong about what the place will look like in 2063 as people were in 1963 about today. But, there are bits and pieces that we can wrap minds around and that we can develop. Those things we should do. IMO. The alternative is to not do them. What's the sense in not doing them?

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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:39 pm

rEvolutionist wrote:Yeah. Even I don't give a fuck about anyone 100 years down the track from now.. :shifty:
That's very human of you. :sigh:
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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:41 pm

Clinton Huxley wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
Clinton Huxley wrote:What's this "we"? We, as in us here, have no stake in this. We will all be dead before any of this stuff materialises.
It's not all about those of us who are breathing today.
Socialist.
It's the socialists who tend to say "this has nothing to do with me" -- "what do I care what happens to generations long after I'm gone..." -- interesting, that, eh?

Were I a socialist, that's what I'd be saying, too, most likely.

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Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by pErvinalia » Fri Aug 02, 2013 1:42 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:Yeah. Even I don't give a fuck about anyone 100 years down the track from now.. :shifty:
That's very human of you. :sigh:
That's what being an atheist does to you. If I was a good Christian I'd care about all those unborn souls... :demon:
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