Bigamy

[Thinking Aloud]

buying three engagement rings (averaging thousands of dollars each)

I've never understood that. (Even more so, knowing it was entirely manufactured by the diamond industry to boost sales.)

[Coito ergo sum]

buying three engagement rings (averaging thousands of dollars each)

I've never understood that. (Even more so, knowing it was entirely manufactured by the diamond industry to boost sales.)

I'm just jealous. I wish there was a manufactured tradition where women had to buy us men expensive gifts. LOL.

...we have these automobile commercials over here -- not sure which brand -- but, it's one of those "auto in the driveway with big red bow on it" as a surprise gift thingies. The twist is that the chick gives the car to hubby. I see that commercial and can't help but go "yeah, right -- gimme a break!" every single time...

[Audley Strange]

I have three wives, one here in Glasgow, my secret wife in Huddersfield and my supersecret wife in Merthyr. Between them they have 16 children, only none of which is mine, but I pay for them and raise them like my own.

Isn't that big o' me?

[Bella Fortuna]

buying three engagement rings (averaging thousands of dollars each)

I've never understood that. (Even more so, knowing it was entirely manufactured by the diamond industry to boost sales.)

And who says it has to a) be a diamond and b) cost thousands of dollars? If someone likes the tradition of giving a token, ring or otherwise, to commemorate the occasion, they can have it be whatever they like.


And yes, I had diamond rings for my two previous marriages... one was a family piece that had been given to us, and the other I picked out from an antique shop for about $300 - and that seemed exorbitant to me at the time!

[Coito ergo sum]

buying three engagement rings (averaging thousands of dollars each)

I've never understood that. (Even more so, knowing it was entirely manufactured by the diamond industry to boost sales.)

And who says it has to a) be a diamond and b) cost thousands of dollars? If someone likes the tradition of giving a token, ring or otherwise, to commemorate the occasion, they can have it be whatever they like.


And yes, I had diamond rings for my two previous marriages... one was a family piece that had been given to us, and the other I picked out from an antique shop for about $300 - and that seemed exorbitant to me at the time!

(a) tradition, culture, peer pressure -- both the bride and groom are faced with prying eyes afterwards -- the bride is inundated with her friends who want to see it, and they have been looking at enough of these things that they know if it's a real diamond or imitation, how many carats it is, and its quality. They don't "have" to do it, of course -- just like women don't "have" to wear make-up or have their nails done and such.

(b) The cost of the ring is evaluated by the bride's peers and the groom is judged by it.

You're the exception to the rule on this, Bella. You have a very down-to-earth attitude. The general tradition followed is different. $300 hardly gets a guy out of Valentine's Day these days....LOL

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Opals are far prettier than diamonds, a clear rock.

[Coito ergo sum]

Opals are far prettier than diamonds, a clear rock.

I think quartz is all the rage nowadays.

[Kristie]

I have a big diamond ring. I love it. And, I don't feel bad about that! I don't love it because I can show it to everyone. I love it because hubby picked it out, all by himself. It's the only expensive thing he's ever bought me, and I look forward to passing it down to one if my children.
I guess it was his way of planning ahead, because he sure doesn't buy me any other gifts. So, it's like all my birthday/anniversary/Christmas /Valentine gifts in one.

[Bella Fortuna]

buying three engagement rings (averaging thousands of dollars each)

I've never understood that. (Even more so, knowing it was entirely manufactured by the diamond industry to boost sales.)

And who says it has to a) be a diamond and b) cost thousands of dollars? If someone likes the tradition of giving a token, ring or otherwise, to commemorate the occasion, they can have it be whatever they like.


And yes, I had diamond rings for my two previous marriages... one was a family piece that had been given to us, and the other I picked out from an antique shop for about $300 - and that seemed exorbitant to me at the time!

(a) tradition, culture, peer pressure -- both the bride and groom are faced with prying eyes afterwards -- the bride is inundated with her friends who want to see it, and they have been looking at enough of these things that they know if it's a real diamond or imitation, how many carats it is, and its quality. They don't "have" to do it, of course -- just like women don't "have" to wear make-up or have their nails done and such.

(b) The cost of the ring is evaluated by the bride's peers and the groom is judged by it.

You're the exception to the rule on this, Bella. You have a very down-to-earth attitude. The general tradition followed is different. $300 hardly gets a guy out of Valentine's Day these days....LOL

I think everything you know or think you know about people comes from watching reality TV and reading People magazine or from people who watch too much reality TV and read People magazine. The world you describe is a dystopian one of every shallow and corporatised stereotype, not of real people - it's nothing I can relate to.

[Bella Fortuna]

Opals are far prettier than diamonds, a clear rock.

I think quartz is all the rage nowadays.

I have a lovely rainbow moonstone. I think it cost about $25 but it's priceless to me.

[Coito ergo sum]

I think everything you know or think you know about people comes from watching reality TV and reading People magazine or from people who watch too much reality TV and read People magazine. The world you describe is a dystopian one of every shallow and corporatised stereotype, not of real people - it's nothing I can relate to.

That's the real world. You are a good person, non-shallow, and you are down-to-Earth, and kind, caring and non-judgmental. And, you are not very prone to peer pressure and you don't have all that much concern about keeping up with the Joneses. That is a great way to be. I've never met you in person, but I can see that from your posts here.

However, there is a whole culture of keep up with the Joneses folks out there. It is very, very common for women to judge other women's engagement rings.

There is a lot of cultural pressure on men in this regard. We don't HAVE to buy engagement rings, but why do you think so many men do, and so few women buy any such thing for men? It has nothing to do with culture and tradition and peer pressure?

I can tell you, there isn't a guy out there, hardly, who wouldn't like a nice engagement Rolex, but there aren't a lot of women out there rushing to the store to drop $3,000 on one for their guy. It's not because women don't love their men and want them to have nice gifts -- it's because it isn't the tradition and there is no cultural pressure on them to buy that. The reverse applies to men -- there IS a cultural tradition -- lots of pressure - for men to buy expensive rings for women.

This has nothing to do with me, personally -- I don't watch reality TV (I watched one season of Survivor, that's the only reality tv I've ever watched). I don't read People magazine (I read National Geographic, Popular Science, Scientific American and the Economist whenever I get a chance).

If you can't relate to what I'm saying about engagement rings - just take a look around at the married and engaged women that you work with. How many of them have engagement rings? How many of them bought an engagement ring or other thing for their fiances? How many get flowers on Valentine's Day? How many send something to their SO's on Valentine's Day?

[Coito ergo sum]

Opals are far prettier than diamonds, a clear rock.

I think quartz is all the rage nowadays.

I have a lovely rainbow moonstone. I think it cost about $25 but it's priceless to me.

That's a great attitude to have. I have a bunch of stuff I like to keep that isn't worth much in the open market. I have the shirt I was wearing when I met SWMBO'd, for example. I'll never get rid of it.

[Seth]

buying three engagement rings (averaging thousands of dollars each)

I've never understood that. (Even more so, knowing it was entirely manufactured by the diamond industry to boost sales.)

I'm just jealous. I wish there was a manufactured tradition where women had to buy us men expensive gifts. LOL.

...we have these automobile commercials over here -- not sure which brand -- but, it's one of those "auto in the driveway with big red bow on it" as a surprise gift thingies. The twist is that the chick gives the car to hubby. I see that commercial and can't help but go "yeah, right -- gimme a break!" every single time...

Yah. I bought my ex-fiancee an $11,000 diamond ring she picked out, and after breaking off the engagement the bitch won't give it back to me, even though that's what the law requires. I'm going to have to sue her to get it back.

And that doesn't count the $15,000 in brand-new, crisp, fresh-from-the-mint cocaine-free $50 bills I had to literally shower upon her to get her to leave my house...and she still won't come get her things...including her son's extraordinary 6 foot long Corn snake that's probably worth three grand. So I'm stuck with a downstairs full of her and her kid's crap that I have to move and either pay to store till she deigns to take it, or put in a dumpster and send to the landfill, which is totally unfair to the kids.

Bitch.

[Coito ergo sum]

buying three engagement rings (averaging thousands of dollars each)

I've never understood that. (Even more so, knowing it was entirely manufactured by the diamond industry to boost sales.)

I'm just jealous. I wish there was a manufactured tradition where women had to buy us men expensive gifts. LOL.

...we have these automobile commercials over here -- not sure which brand -- but, it's one of those "auto in the driveway with big red bow on it" as a surprise gift thingies. The twist is that the chick gives the car to hubby. I see that commercial and can't help but go "yeah, right -- gimme a break!" every single time...

Yah. I bought my ex-fiancee an $11,000 diamond ring she picked out, and after breaking off the engagement the bitch won't give it back to me, even though that's what the law requires. I'm going to have to sue her to get it back.

And that doesn't count the $15,000 in brand-new, crisp, fresh-from-the-mint cocaine-free $50 bills I had to literally shower upon her to get her to leave my house...and she still won't come get her things...including her son's extraordinary 6 foot long Corn snake that's probably worth three grand. So I'm stuck with a downstairs full of her and her kid's crap that I have to move and either pay to store till she deigns to take it, or put in a dumpster and send to the landfill, which is totally unfair to the kids.

Bitch.

All depends how the gift is given. Generally, if it purely an engagement present, then it is a "conditional gift." The gift remains conditional until the marriage is entered into.

The big mistake, legally speaking, guys make is to give the engagement ring on Christmas, a birthday, or another holiday. If you do that, she can make the case that you gave the gift as an unconditional Christmas or birthday gift, or even a Valentine's gift, etc. So, the legal advice to anyone getting engaged is to do it separate from any other gift-giving, so that it is clearly and unequivocally a conditional gift. State laws may vary, of course.

Of course, knowing all that, I still proposed to SWMBO'd on Christmas Eve. LOL

I don't get why you had to pay her $15,000 to leave, but there must be some facts you didn't relate. If it's your house, you could have changed the locks and alarm codes while she was out. No problemo.

Don't spend money on her stuff. Just make an inventory, send it to her in a certified letter giving her like 10 or 15 days to make an appointment to pick it up or you're selling it and giving the snake to a shelter. Something like that. State laws vary, but something like that should work.

[Seth]

buying three engagement rings (averaging thousands of dollars each)

I've never understood that. (Even more so, knowing it was entirely manufactured by the diamond industry to boost sales.)

I'm just jealous. I wish there was a manufactured tradition where women had to buy us men expensive gifts. LOL.

...we have these automobile commercials over here -- not sure which brand -- but, it's one of those "auto in the driveway with big red bow on it" as a surprise gift thingies. The twist is that the chick gives the car to hubby. I see that commercial and can't help but go "yeah, right -- gimme a break!" every single time...

Yah. I bought my ex-fiancee an $11,000 diamond ring she picked out, and after breaking off the engagement the bitch won't give it back to me, even though that's what the law requires. I'm going to have to sue her to get it back.

And that doesn't count the $15,000 in brand-new, crisp, fresh-from-the-mint cocaine-free $50 bills I had to literally shower upon her to get her to leave my house...and she still won't come get her things...including her son's extraordinary 6 foot long Corn snake that's probably worth three grand. So I'm stuck with a downstairs full of her and her kid's crap that I have to move and either pay to store till she deigns to take it, or put in a dumpster and send to the landfill, which is totally unfair to the kids.

Bitch.

All depends how the gift is given. Generally, if it purely an engagement present, then it is a "conditional gift." The gift remains conditional until the marriage is entered into.

God-damned right it was purely an engagement present. I went down on one knee and asked her to marry me, and she accepted, right there in the jewelry store, in front of witnesses.

The big mistake, legally speaking, guys make is to give the engagement ring on Christmas, a birthday, or another holiday. If you do that, she can make the case that you gave the gift as an unconditional Christmas or birthday gift, or even a Valentine's gift, etc. So, the legal advice to anyone getting engaged is to do it separate from any other gift-giving, so that it is clearly and unequivocally a conditional gift. State laws may vary, of course.

Of course, knowing all that, I still proposed to SWMBO'd on Christmas Eve. LOL

I knew that, which is precisely why I did it the way I did. I wasn't born yesterday, it just pisses me off that she won't bother to read the caselaw I sent her on the subject and she's maintaining her position that it's half hers at worst...just so I have to go through the expense of suing her.

I don't get why you had to pay her $15,000 to leave, but there must be some facts you didn't relate. If it's your house, you could have changed the locks and alarm codes while she was out. No problemo.

She wouldn't leave. She promised to leave. I left town for two months specifically to give her "space" to pack up and find a new place, but she didn't make a single attempt to do so. When I got back I was fed up with her bitching at me by text message. She knows the tenancy laws here, and because she'd lived here for two years, I was required to go through the formal eviction process to get her out. That would have involved my landlord, and I do NOT want to piss him off by entangling him in a messy breakup, so I asked her how much it would take to get her to leave and that's what it cost.

Don't spend money on her stuff. Just make an inventory, send it to her in a certified letter giving her like 10 or 15 days to make an appointment to pick it up or you're selling it and giving the snake to a shelter. Something like that. State laws vary, but something like that should work.

It's all been done by text message, which I've preserved by downloading it from my phone, because I have no idea where she's staying. She tried to falsely accuse me of domestic violence to get me arrested and have my guns taken away, but fortunately she lied to the police and they caught her out and dismissed the complaint as unfounded...after a couple of weeks of me sweating a possible arrest warrant and leaving the state to prevent any further contact between us.

She claims she's "afraid" of me, even though I've offered many times to have a mutual friend supervise the move while I'm completely gone from the area. She's really just using it as a method of harassment and passive-aggressive revenge.

Plus, she suffers from Borderline Personality Disorder, which has persecution complexes as one of the indicators. She wants to be able to blame me for the breakup and forcing me to bin her and her kid's stuff is a good way to salve her deranged conscience and make me look like an asshole.

Oh well.

I'm doing what any red-blooded American male would do when faced with the loss of his fiancee...I got a brand-new girlfriend! Younger and cuter than the last one, and no kids!