Why is masturbation such a taboo topic?

[mistermack]

There is only one thing worse than pop-psychology and that is evolutionary psychology.

Behavior and psychology are different things.

A huge amount of our behavior is inherited. Such as eating and breathing, pissing, shitting, shagging and wanking.
Like it or not, that's a fact.

Yeah but Just So Stories are not.

Yeh ? What would YOU know?

[Elessarina]

I'm confused... can anyone lend a hand on what this thread is about?

[rasetsu]

I don't have a good handle on it, but if you give me a sec, I'll see if I can find the groove.

[mistermack]

This may explain why people in general don't have public sex, but If this had any bearing on why we don't talk about masturbation, then people wouldn't talk about sex in general, and we know that's not true.

We have a TENDENCY not to talk about masturbation. Nothing's ever black and white in behavior.

I'm thinking that for men, there's a big difference between talking about sex with women, and talking about masturbation.
When men become sexually active, they are quite competitive about it. Teenage guys will brag to their mates when they "score". And even lie about it when they don't. But nobody brags about masturbation.

Among teenage boys, masturbation would be taken as a sign of lack of success with girls, and mocked without mercy. So you keep quiet about it, as a form of self-defense. And the fact that nobody talks openly about masturbation is self-reinforcing. It becomes socially unacceptable.

That attitude stays with you then, for the rest of your life.

[rasetsu]

Yes, that's just so.


(I have to wonder which thread mistermack has been reading.)

[mistermack]

Yes, that's just so.

(I have to wonder which thread mistermack has been reading.)

Marvelous, o wise one.
You produce words, but say nothing.
Like my budgie.

[laklak]

Your budgie can talk? That's pretty cool. Probably makes as much sense as most theists.

[hadespussercats]

Your budgie can talk?

^ Is this the new slang for choking the chicken?

[Pappa]

There are perfectly good evolutionary reasons why we are reticent about sex, and instinctively keep it private.

Human infants are big, heavy, helpless and vulnerable, for the longest period of any species. They're a big investment for both sexes.

The male does not want to spend his life defending and providing for the young of another male.

And the female doesn't want to give away her sexual favours, without commitment from the male, to stick around, and defend and provide for her children.

Obviously, it's in the interests of both parties to cheat a bit. To attempt to have your cake, and eat it. But the instincts are to make sure that your partner remains committed.

Having sex in public is likely to invite interference from bystanders. A male would not like a bigger, stronger male to get interested enough to decide to take over.
And a female would rather other females didn't get to like the way her mate was performing, and to fancy some, when they got the chance.

So we evolved a need for privacy, to strengthen this system of one-man-one-woman bonding that served us so well.

I'm too lazy to respond properly.... so I'll use a quote from something I posted a while ago which makes the point for me....

1. Human Nature

Or... more specifically, people assuming that some specific cultural values are "human nature" and therefore the way things have to be. An example would be, all humans are inherently selfish/greedy, therefore any/all forms socialism/capitalism/anarchism are inherently unworkable. (This is just one tiny example, people use it as a trump card for any number of culturally learned ideas/values).

A few hundred years ago, a subgroup of humanity that due to historical happenstance were technologically and militaristically more powerful than the rest of the word carved it up amongst themselves. Ever since, their cultural values have been assumed to apply to humanity as a whole. Thousands of different cultures have become extinct in half a millennia, and all of them were different to each other, with widely varying cultural values. Even in the past 100 years, cultures have died out that were extensively studied before they expired, and certain things can be inferred about how extinct cultures were organised by the archaeology they left behind. The one thing that is certain is that our "human nature" was not shared by them all. Many of them had sets of values we would not recognise, or ways of living an interacting that we would regard as impossible or unworkable as a form of culture, yet they did very well without us. Some of them still exist, and we can see quite plainly that they don't share our "human nature".

There are obviously uncountable human behaviours that are shared by all/most of us, that are genetically controlled and inbuilt to us as a species... but whenever I hear the phrase "human nature" it almost always seems to be used to justify some preconception based on the speaker's own cultural values.

[hadespussercats]

I think masturbating is just human nature.

[mistermack]

There are perfectly good evolutionary reasons why we are reticent about sex, and instinctively keep it private.

Human infants are big, heavy, helpless and vulnerable, for the longest period of any species. They're a big investment for both sexes.

The male does not want to spend his life defending and providing for the young of another male.

And the female doesn't want to give away her sexual favours, without commitment from the male, to stick around, and defend and provide for her children.

Obviously, it's in the interests of both parties to cheat a bit. To attempt to have your cake, and eat it. But the instincts are to make sure that your partner remains committed.

Having sex in public is likely to invite interference from bystanders. A male would not like a bigger, stronger male to get interested enough to decide to take over.
And a female would rather other females didn't get to like the way her mate was performing, and to fancy some, when they got the chance.

So we evolved a need for privacy, to strengthen this system of one-man-one-woman bonding that served us so well.

I'm too lazy to respond properly.... so I'll use a quote from something I posted a while ago which makes the point for me....

1. Human Nature

Or... more specifically, people assuming that some specific cultural values are "human nature" and therefore the way things have to be. An example would be, all humans are inherently selfish/greedy, therefore any/all forms socialism/capitalism/anarchism are inherently unworkable. (This is just one tiny example, people use it as a trump card for any number of culturally learned ideas/values).

A few hundred years ago, a subgroup of humanity that due to historical happenstance were technologically and militaristically more powerful than the rest of the word carved it up amongst themselves. Ever since, their cultural values have been assumed to apply to humanity as a whole. Thousands of different cultures have become extinct in half a millennia, and all of them were different to each other, with widely varying cultural values. Even in the past 100 years, cultures have died out that were extensively studied before they expired, and certain things can be inferred about how extinct cultures were organised by the archaeology they left behind. The one thing that is certain is that our "human nature" was not shared by them all. Many of them had sets of values we would not recognise, or ways of living an interacting that we would regard as impossible or unworkable as a form of culture, yet they did very well without us. Some of them still exist, and we can see quite plainly that they don't share our "human nature".

There are obviously uncountable human behaviours that are shared by all/most of us, that are genetically controlled and inbuilt to us as a species... but whenever I hear the phrase "human nature" it almost always seems to be used to justify some preconception based on the speaker's own cultural values.

I don't see what you're getting at.
I've got no argument with what's in that passage, it seems to be just stating what most people already know. But in what way does it apply to what I wrote?
Or is that the bit that you're too lazy to think about?

[Hermit]

There are perfectly good evolutionary reasons why we are reticent about sex, and instinctively...

...people assuming that some specific cultural values are "human nature" and therefore the way things have to be. ... There are obviously uncountable human behaviours that are shared by all/most of us, that are genetically controlled and inbuilt to us as a species... but whenever I hear the phrase "human nature" it almost always seems to be used to justify some preconception based on the speaker's own cultural values.

I don't see what you're getting at.
I've got no argument with what's in that passage, it seems to be just stating what most people already know. But in what way does it apply to what I wrote?

Human nature, instinctual behaviour, evolutionary psychology, evolutionary behaviour, pick whatever you want to call it, is not exactly a million miles distant from the concept of "human nature".

[mistermack]

There are perfectly good evolutionary reasons why we are reticent about sex, and instinctively...

...people assuming that some specific cultural values are "human nature" and therefore the way things have to be. ... There are obviously uncountable human behaviours that are shared by all/most of us, that are genetically controlled and inbuilt to us as a species... but whenever I hear the phrase "human nature" it almost always seems to be used to justify some preconception based on the speaker's own cultural values.

I don't see what you're getting at.
I've got no argument with what's in that passage, it seems to be just stating what most people already know. But in what way does it apply to what I wrote?

Human nature, instinctual behaviour, evolutionary psychology, evolutionary behaviour, pick whatever you want to call it, is not exactly a million miles distant from the concept of "human nature".

So what?
Considering the title of this thread, what would you prefer to talk about?

[Beatsong]

This may explain why people in general don't have public sex, but If this had any bearing on why we don't talk about masturbation, then people wouldn't talk about sex in general, and we know that's not true.

We have a TENDENCY not to talk about masturbation. Nothing's ever black and white in behavior.

I'm thinking that for men, there's a big difference between talking about sex with women, and talking about masturbation.
When men become sexually active, they are quite competitive about it. Teenage guys will brag to their mates when they "score". And even lie about it when they don't. But nobody brags about masturbation.

Among teenage boys, masturbation would be taken as a sign of lack of success with girls, and mocked without mercy. So you keep quiet about it, as a form of self-defense. And the fact that nobody talks openly about masturbation is self-reinforcing. It becomes socially unacceptable.

That attitude stays with you then, for the rest of your life.

Yes, I think that's a huge factor. Certainly for guys, at least.

There's still an idea out there that if you're sexy and successful enough as a man, you'll either have a partner who's all over you every night, or be able to go out and get one night stands at the drop of a hat whenever you want. So wanking is taken as a sign of failure.

This is of course ridiculous. Libidos wax and wane in relationships. I've been in perfectly happy relationships and still needed to wank some of the time. Why complicate things by grasping after some myth of the perfectly matched sex drive? And as for one night stands: given a choice between going out to some place I don't want to be, talking shit to some girl I'm not interested in all night and spending all my money on the off-chance that she MIGHT come home with me at 3 in the morning for some tired desultory rumpy pumpy, and quickly spanking the monkey and getting on with my life - I'll take the monkey any day.

But these kind of myths die hard, when pride and status are invested in them.

[maiforpeace]

This may explain why people in general don't have public sex, but If this had any bearing on why we don't talk about masturbation, then people wouldn't talk about sex in general, and we know that's not true.

We have a TENDENCY not to talk about masturbation. Nothing's ever black and white in behavior.

I'm thinking that for men, there's a big difference between talking about sex with women, and talking about masturbation.
When men become sexually active, they are quite competitive about it. Teenage guys will brag to their mates when they "score". And even lie about it when they don't. But nobody brags about masturbation.

Among teenage boys, masturbation would be taken as a sign of lack of success with girls, and mocked without mercy. So you keep quiet about it, as a form of self-defense. And the fact that nobody talks openly about masturbation is self-reinforcing. It becomes socially unacceptable.

That attitude stays with you then, for the rest of your life.

Yes, I think that's a huge factor. Certainly for guys, at least.

There's still an idea out there that if you're sexy and successful enough as a man, you'll either have a partner who's all over you every night, or be able to go out and get one night stands at the drop of a hat whenever you want. So wanking is taken as a sign of failure.

This is of course ridiculous. Libidos wax and wane in relationships. I've been in perfectly happy relationships and still needed to wank some of the time. Why complicate things by grasping after some myth of the perfectly matched sex drive? And as for one night stands: given a choice between going out to some place I don't want to be, talking shit to some girl I'm not interested in all night and spending all my money on the off-chance that she MIGHT come home with me at 3 in the morning for some tired desultory rumpy pumpy, and quickly spanking the monkey and getting on with my life - I'll take the monkey any day.

But these kind of myths die hard, when pride and status are invested in them.

Interesting perspective, one I'm not as familiar with being a woman.

I wonder how different the discussion about masturbation is now among young people? In my day us teens never talked about it, but considering how much more open people are about talking about it today, and considering how much porn glamourizes masturbation among women, it must be a little less stigmatized, no?