Relating to Hume? I hope to have misunderstood you there.notFBM wrote:a philosophy that is purely academic, ie, without practical application, is insufficient.
Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
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Hermit
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
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FBM
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
You may know more about Hume than I do (that wouldn't be hardSeraph wrote:Relating to Hume? I hope to have misunderstood you there.notFBM wrote:a philosophy that is purely academic, ie, without practical application, is insufficient.
). In what way did Hume apply his empiricism to the way he lived his daily life? Did he have a goal beyond simply intellectual understanding? Anything comparable to ataraxia?I just read a quick overview of Hume's work, but didn't see anything about practical application of his ideas.
http://www.philosophypages.com/hy/4t.htmAccording to Hume, the proper goal of philosophy is simply to explain why we believe what we do.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
For one thing, his thoroughly skeptical epistemology made him an agnostic atheist. I am confident that you can work out the social and political consequences of that, as well as the ramifications this had on his personal life. There are numerous comments by his contemporaries concerning Hume's tranquillity, stoicism and equanimity, although his last words were "I am burning inside", but that is not really surprising, considering that he died from bowel or liver cancer.notFBM wrote:In what way did Hume apply his empiricism to the way he lived his daily life? Did he have a goal beyond simply intellectual understanding? Anything comparable to ataraxia?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould
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FBM
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
That's what I was missing.Seraph wrote:...There are numerous comments by his contemporaries concerning Hume's tranquillity, stoicism and equanimity...
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
This is what I was trying to get at in talking about degrees of freedom rather than an either or approach. I find it a bit frustrating that free will is more often discussed as an absolute, either fully present or deterministically absent - neither of which seems able to hold water for long. Influence is a far more useful term than control in describing areas more often debated, ie those that aren't mind blowingly clear from the outset. Again, to declare my non academic starting point, I can see clearly that almost nothing I think, say or do is uninfluenced but one of the things able to influence is my own choice, it's one of many though rather than a stand alone cause and even the way I go about making the choices are influenced. What I'm trying (very badly) to say is that the influences on me exceed my own will but that my choices also influence the influences - for example I can chose to read a certain book rather than another, eg the Dalai Lama on ethics as opposed to RD on religion and in turn that effects what then continues to influence my thinking and approach. (I think placing such a choice so clearly here is quite daring.... :twisted: )There's some ambiguity with the word 'free', seems. If you mean it in the sense of 'unforced' or 'without coercion', then I don't think it would be incompatible. If you mean it in the sense of 'uninfluenced', as if you could choose something out of the blue, then there's a major conflict with paticca samuppada.
Some things through life have saddened me and have to some extent made me fearful, the power of group thinking, the blinkers of dogmatism, and the sheer power of strongly held conviction. None of those things are avoidable (or at least I cannot find how), all of them can strip people of their wit and compassion and while I think reasoning and rationality offers a valid first point of defence there are swathes of experience (phenomena) to which skeptical thinking is far harder to apply, such as emotion, motivation, even the clutter of love.
What I'm trying (again not well!) to express is why I think to read and think about approaches such as buddhism has a place, regardless of the difficulties it poses in assessing all things by evidence, not to say evidence should be abandoned though!
"Whatever it is, it spits and it goes 'WAAARGHHHHHHHH' - that's probably enough to suggest you shouldn't argue with it." Mousy.
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
Yup. So many people fall into the false dichotomy trap. They feel the need to make absolutist, dogmatic statements when, if they analyzed the situation more carefully, they'd realize that the issue is far from settled. I don't know why people find it so difficult to say, 'I don't know'. Addiction to certainty, maybe?floppit wrote:This is what I was trying to get at in talking about degrees of freedom rather than an either or approach. I find it a bit frustrating that free will is more often discussed as an absolute, either fully present or deterministically absent - neither of which seems able to hold water for long...
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Twoflower
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
What is Dependent Arising? The chapter I have to outline keeps mentioning it and how we will never get to the bottom of it. Is it like things that can only exists because of something else?
I'm wild just like a rock, a stone, a tree
And I'm free, just like the wind the breeze that blows
And I flow, just like a brook, a stream, the rain
And I fly, just like a bird up in the sky
And I'll surely die, just like a flower plucked
And dragged away and thrown away
And then one day it turns to clay
It blows away, it finds a ray, it finds its way
And there it lays until the rain and sun
Then I breathe, just like the wind the breeze that blows
And I grow, just like a baby breastfeeding
And it's beautiful, that's life
And I'm free, just like the wind the breeze that blows
And I flow, just like a brook, a stream, the rain
And I fly, just like a bird up in the sky
And I'll surely die, just like a flower plucked
And dragged away and thrown away
And then one day it turns to clay
It blows away, it finds a ray, it finds its way
And there it lays until the rain and sun
Then I breathe, just like the wind the breeze that blows
And I grow, just like a baby breastfeeding
And it's beautiful, that's life
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FBM
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
Ah, paticca samuppada.Pluto2 wrote:What is Dependent Arising? The chapter I have to outline keeps mentioning it and how we will never get to the bottom of it. Is it like things that can only exists because of something else?
In one sense, it's one of the hardest things to understand in Buddhist philosophy. The way it's presented in the suttas presupposes a cultural background knowledge of Indian philosophy and worldview. On the other hand, once you get the main idea, you can work out an explanation in your own terms pretty easily.
First, you need to know that 'things' here doesn't mean physical objects. It means 'phenomena'. We never actually experience physical things, only phenomena. So, this is a description of how the world of experience works. Keep in mind that it is said to have no known beginning and or end.
We can't say that anything really starts at the moment of birth. Birth is a continuation of a series of events that preceeded the birth moment. The parents had sensations, feelings, perceptions, etc., that led them to copulate, etc. If you see an event as being the result of a sequence of prior conditions and conditioning events, then 'this event' can't ever be truly independent or isolated.
A simplified example would be the behavior of a rack of pool balls on the break. The balls roll in various directions, bouncing off each other, etc., in a complicated and co-dependent way. There was also a series of events that led up to someone racking the balls and breaking, too. In fact, these series of events are all infinite, and there are an infinite number of series. (Cantor, Boltzman, Godel, Turing...) In this sense, paticca samuppada is a declaration of fundamental ignorance on questions of ultimate causes and effects. One can only analyze what's going on at any moment.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the paticca samuppada was not intended as ontology, not as ultimately true. The Buddha said that his dhamma was a raft for getting to the other side of the river, not for clinging onto afterwards. IOW, a tool or a guide, but not the goal. Therefore, one should read the paticca samuppada with the intent to experience the effects of that worldview, not to discover any ultimate truth.
The paticca samuppada describes a way of looking at how the mind comes about. How we take sensations from the 6 (5+mind) sense organs and make them into perceptions, reify the perceptions into 'real' objects, and finally, the whole world. But that's not the main point. That's just a lead-up to the point of the story. The point is to convince the listener of the value of the Four Noble Truths and anatta. If you see how the phenomenal world comes about as an infinite series of prior conditions and events, you'll easily see that it's all impersonal (no-self). Furthermore, if you don't assume that you are a discrete, enduring entity, but instead another series of events, you can see that you can change your behavior in such ways as to prevent the future arising of negative (unpleasant) phenomena.
I think.
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
Would it be like the thought that anything and everything is so tied to its own evolution and to all the rest, that trying to grasp a concept by a static isolated definition of the idea provides an untrue vision of reality?FBM wrote:Ah, paticca samuppada.Pluto2 wrote:What is Dependent Arising? The chapter I have to outline keeps mentioning it and how we will never get to the bottom of it. Is it like things that can only exists because of something else?
In one sense, it's one of the hardest things to understand in Buddhist philosophy. The way it's presented in the suttas presupposes a cultural background knowledge of Indian philosophy and worldview. On the other hand, once you get the main idea, you can work out an explanation in your own terms pretty easily.
First, you need to know that 'things' here doesn't mean physical objects. It means 'phenomena'. We never actually experience physical things, only phenomena. So, this is a description of how the world of experience works. Keep in mind that it is said to have no known beginning and or end.
We can't say that anything really starts at the moment of birth. Birth is a continuation of a series of events that preceeded the birth moment. The parents had sensations, feelings, perceptions, etc., that led them to copulate, etc. If you see an event as being the result of a sequence of prior conditions and conditioning events, then 'this event' can't ever be truly independent or isolated.
A simplified example would be the behavior of a rack of pool balls on the break. The balls roll in various directions, bouncing off each other, etc., in a complicated and co-dependent way. There was also a series of events that led up to someone racking the balls and breaking, too. In fact, these series of events are all infinite, and there are an infinite number of series. (Cantor, Boltzman, Godel, Turing...) In this sense, paticca samuppada is a declaration of fundamental ignorance on questions of ultimate causes and effects. One can only analyze what's going on at any moment.
Also, you have to keep in mind that the paticca samuppada was not intended as ontology, not as ultimately true. The Buddha said that his dhamma was a raft for getting to the other side of the river, not for clinging onto afterwards. IOW, a tool or a guide, but not the goal. Therefore, one should read the paticca samuppada with the intent to experience the effects of that worldview, not to discover any ultimate truth.
The paticca samuppada describes a way of looking at how the mind comes about. How we take sensations from the 6 (5+mind) sense organs and make them into perceptions, reify the perceptions into 'real' objects, and finally, the whole world. But that's not the main point. That's just a lead-up to the point of the story. The point is to convince the listener of the value of the Four Noble Truths and anatta. If you see how the phenomenal world comes about as an infinite series of prior conditions and events, you'll easily see that it's all impersonal (no-self). Furthermore, if you don't assume that you are a discrete, enduring entity, but instead another series of events, you can see that you can change your behavior in such ways as to prevent the future arising of negative (unpleasant) phenomena.
I think.
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FBM
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
Well, I guess if you wanted to be concise about it.Sisifo wrote:Would it be like the thought that anything and everything is so tied to its own evolution and to all the rest, that trying to grasp a concept by a static isolated definition of the idea provides an untrue vision of reality?
"A philosopher is a blind man in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there. A theologian is the man who finds it." ~ H. L. Mencken
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
"We ain't a sharp species. We kill each other over arguments about what happens when you die, then fail to see the fucking irony in that."
"It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favor of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion."
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Twoflower
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- About me: Twoflower is the optimistic-but-naive tourist. He often runs into danger, being certain that nothing bad will happen to him since he is not involved. He also believes in the fundamental goodness of human nature and that all problems can be resolved, if all parties show good will and cooperate.
- Location: Boston
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
My professor has a wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Newland
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Newland
I'm wild just like a rock, a stone, a tree
And I'm free, just like the wind the breeze that blows
And I flow, just like a brook, a stream, the rain
And I fly, just like a bird up in the sky
And I'll surely die, just like a flower plucked
And dragged away and thrown away
And then one day it turns to clay
It blows away, it finds a ray, it finds its way
And there it lays until the rain and sun
Then I breathe, just like the wind the breeze that blows
And I grow, just like a baby breastfeeding
And it's beautiful, that's life
And I'm free, just like the wind the breeze that blows
And I flow, just like a brook, a stream, the rain
And I fly, just like a bird up in the sky
And I'll surely die, just like a flower plucked
And dragged away and thrown away
And then one day it turns to clay
It blows away, it finds a ray, it finds its way
And there it lays until the rain and sun
Then I breathe, just like the wind the breeze that blows
And I grow, just like a baby breastfeeding
And it's beautiful, that's life
Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
Wow! The page for Guy Newland was created by user:Newla1gm who hasn't worked on any other page in wikipedia... Talk about Buddhist humility...Pluto2 wrote:My professor has a wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Newland
Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
wrote his own wiki pageSisifo wrote:Wow! The page for Guy Newland was created by user:Newla1gm who hasn't worked on any other page in wikipedia... Talk about Buddhist humility...Pluto2 wrote:My professor has a wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Newland
Give me the wine , I don't need the bread
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
Sisifo wrote:Wow! The page for Guy Newland was created by user:Newla1gm who hasn't worked on any other page in wikipedia... Talk about Buddhist humility...Pluto2 wrote:My professor has a wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Newland
I expect that that email address was just a raft to cross the river to wikipedia and that he will not carry it with him hereafter...
A book is a version of the world. If you do not like it, ignore it; or offer your own version in return.
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You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
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Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
Salman Rushdie
You talk to God, you're religious. God talks to you, you're psychotic.
House MD
Who needs a meaning anyway, I'd settle anyday for a very fine view.
Sandy Denny
This is the wrong forum for bluffing
Paco
Yes, yes. But first I need to show you this venomous fish!
Calilasseia
I think we should do whatever Pawiz wants.
Twoflower
Bella squats momentarily then waddles on still peeing, like a horse
Millefleur
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Re: Confession of a Buddhist Atheist (tangent)
Thorhalland did that too.Feck wrote:wrote his own wiki pageSisifo wrote:Wow! The page for Guy Newland was created by user:Newla1gm who hasn't worked on any other page in wikipedia... Talk about Buddhist humility...Pluto2 wrote:My professor has a wikipedia page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guy_Newland
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