What's the point of having kids?

[tattuchu]

I was bored.

It's something to do

[Kristie]

Someone earlier said that bad children were the fault of the parents or something....

Holy horseshit! That is SO not true. Some adults are loveable, some ore worthless (to you, or to me). Is there a magic age where they are responsible for who they are? Or is it just that we are supposed to love kids no matter what?

Unconditional love is horrible. From both sides.

It's not horseshit! The environment that kids are raised in helps determine what kind of person they are. Some parents raise kids that are brats who scream and cry when they don't get what they want, kids who don't listen to adults, kids that talk back to adults. Granted, some portion (I'm not sure how much) of a child's attitude and personality will be what it will be regardless of their parents, but parents are largely responsible for how young children behave. Some say personality is set by the age of 2, others say the age of 6. Everyone says something different. But, no matter what age it is, parents are the ones that have the most influence on their child's personality and behavior.

[Tigger]

Someone earlier said that bad children were the fault of the parents or something....

Holy horseshit! That is SO not true. Some adults are loveable, some ore worthless (to you, or to me). Is there a magic age where they are responsible for who they are? Or is it just that we are supposed to love kids no matter what?

Unconditional love is horrible. From both sides.

It's not horseshit! The environment that kids are raised in helps determine what kind of person they are. Some parents raise kids that are brats who scream and cry when they don't get what they want, kids who don't listen to adults, kids that talk back to adults. Granted, some portion (I'm not sure how much) of a child's attitude and personality will be what it will be regardless of their parents, but parents are largely responsible for how young children behave. Some say personality is set by the age of 2, others say the age of 6. Everyone says something different. But, no matter what age it is, parents are the ones that have the most influence on their child's personality and behavior.

Exactly. I don't "get" this business with kids being expected to behave in a certain (usually bad) way when they are a certain age regardless of upbringing. The terrible 'twos', the teeange angst years: it's bollocks unless you as a parent allow it, and the sooner parents realise what they can achieve by putting in a bit of effort the better.

[Cunt]

Someone earlier said that bad children were the fault of the parents or something....

Holy horseshit! That is SO not true. Some adults are loveable, some ore worthless (to you, or to me). Is there a magic age where they are responsible for who they are? Or is it just that we are supposed to love kids no matter what?

Unconditional love is horrible. From both sides.

It's not horseshit! The environment that kids are raised in helps determine what kind of person they are. Some parents raise kids that are brats who scream and cry when they don't get what they want, kids who don't listen to adults, kids that talk back to adults. Granted, some portion (I'm not sure how much) of a child's attitude and personality will be what it will be regardless of their parents, but parents are largely responsible for how young children behave. Some say personality is set by the age of 2, others say the age of 6. Everyone says something different. But, no matter what age it is, parents are the ones that have the most influence on their child's personality and behavior.

What evidence could convince you that you were wrong?

How about a family where there are 'good' AND 'bad' kids?

[laklak]

I wouldn't trade my kids for anything less than a '65 327 Vette convertible. Having them around has been about the most rewarding thing I've ever experienced. But I certainly understand people who don't want them. Mrs. Lak does NOT want kids, she says two step-daughters is sufficient. Fine by me, I'm too old to change diapers and they're too damned expensive. Besides, the world has changed. Just try selling an extra daughter to an Arab these days, see what happens.

[Kristie]

Someone earlier said that bad children were the fault of the parents or something....

Holy horseshit! That is SO not true. Some adults are loveable, some ore worthless (to you, or to me). Is there a magic age where they are responsible for who they are? Or is it just that we are supposed to love kids no matter what?

Unconditional love is horrible. From both sides.

It's not horseshit! The environment that kids are raised in helps determine what kind of person they are. Some parents raise kids that are brats who scream and cry when they don't get what they want, kids who don't listen to adults, kids that talk back to adults. Granted, some portion (I'm not sure how much) of a child's attitude and personality will be what it will be regardless of their parents, but parents are largely responsible for how young children behave. Some say personality is set by the age of 2, others say the age of 6. Everyone says something different. But, no matter what age it is, parents are the ones that have the most influence on their child's personality and behavior.

What evidence could convince you that you were wrong?

How about a family where there are 'good' AND 'bad' kids?

Did you even read what I wrote? And when I'm talking about kids, I'm really talking about babies up to about the age of 7 or 8. That's what the age that I believe children start really becoming their own person and hopefully their parents have done a good job with them up until that age.

[Geoff]

Someone earlier said that bad children were the fault of the parents or something....

Holy horseshit! That is SO not true. Some adults are loveable, some ore worthless (to you, or to me). Is there a magic age where they are responsible for who they are? Or is it just that we are supposed to love kids no matter what?

Unconditional love is horrible. From both sides.

It's not horseshit! The environment that kids are raised in helps determine what kind of person they are. Some parents raise kids that are brats who scream and cry when they don't get what they want, kids who don't listen to adults, kids that talk back to adults. Granted, some portion (I'm not sure how much) of a child's attitude and personality will be what it will be regardless of their parents, but parents are largely responsible for how young children behave. Some say personality is set by the age of 2, others say the age of 6. Everyone says something different. But, no matter what age it is, parents are the ones that have the most influence on their child's personality and behavior.

Exactly. I don't "get" this business with kids being expected to behave in a certain (usually bad) way when they are a certain age regardless of upbringing. The terrible 'twos', the teeange angst years: it's bollocks unless you as a parent allow it, and the sooner parents realise what they can achieve by putting in a bit of effort the better.

So, the way mousy has turned out is all your fault?




(you did OK, really)

[Tigger]

Someone earlier said that bad children were the fault of the parents or something....

Holy horseshit! That is SO not true. Some adults are loveable, some ore worthless (to you, or to me). Is there a magic age where they are responsible for who they are? Or is it just that we are supposed to love kids no matter what?

Unconditional love is horrible. From both sides.

It's not horseshit! The environment that kids are raised in helps determine what kind of person they are. Some parents raise kids that are brats who scream and cry when they don't get what they want, kids who don't listen to adults, kids that talk back to adults. Granted, some portion (I'm not sure how much) of a child's attitude and personality will be what it will be regardless of their parents, but parents are largely responsible for how young children behave. Some say personality is set by the age of 2, others say the age of 6. Everyone says something different. But, no matter what age it is, parents are the ones that have the most influence on their child's personality and behavior.

Exactly. I don't "get" this business with kids being expected to behave in a certain (usually bad) way when they are a certain age regardless of upbringing. The terrible 'twos', the teeange angst years: it's bollocks unless you as a parent allow it, and the sooner parents realise what they can achieve by putting in a bit of effort the better.

So, the way mousy has turned out is all your fault?




(you did OK, really)

Entirely!

[Cormac]

Good point, mistermack. Most 'parents' gleefully send their kids to daycare, and school (is there a difference?) rather than educate them themselves. I think there are some folks who do want to raise kids, but most of them just want to make them and have others raise them.

Oh, then they accuse teachers of doing a shit job, or being overpaid.

I send my two boys to a creche because:

1. It is very good for them to be around other children all day.
2. The creche is amazingly good - it has a petting zoo, and some of the best childcare people I've ever seen.
3. My wife and I both work (although I'm not working at the moment), and we can't afford for one of us to be at home.

If I won the lottery, I'd love to be at home and available to them most of the time. I'd still send them to the creche though, because it is very good for their development.

[mistermack]

What about two families sharing kids? That's often what happens in the third world, and used to happen informally in the UK.
Kids and adults were in and out of each others houses all the time, and it was very common for sisters to bring up their sister's child as their own.
It's nowhere near so common any more. Everybody has their own little castle.

[devogue]

The reason for having male children:

Trigger Warning!!!1! :

[Cunt]

Someone earlier said that bad children were the fault of the parents or something....

Holy horseshit! That is SO not true. Some adults are loveable, some ore worthless (to you, or to me). Is there a magic age where they are responsible for who they are? Or is it just that we are supposed to love kids no matter what?

Unconditional love is horrible. From both sides.

It's not horseshit! The environment that kids are raised in helps determine what kind of person they are. Some parents raise kids that are brats who scream and cry when they don't get what they want, kids who don't listen to adults, kids that talk back to adults. Granted, some portion (I'm not sure how much) of a child's attitude and personality will be what it will be regardless of their parents, but parents are largely responsible for how young children behave. Some say personality is set by the age of 2, others say the age of 6. Everyone says something different. But, no matter what age it is, parents are the ones that have the most influence on their child's personality and behavior.

What evidence could convince you that you were wrong?

How about a family where there are 'good' AND 'bad' kids?

Did you even read what I wrote? And when I'm talking about kids, I'm really talking about babies up to about the age of 7 or 8. That's what the age that I believe children start really becoming their own person and hopefully their parents have done a good job with them up until that age.

Having had children grow up around me, I have noticed them 'becoming their own person' earlier (and later) than that.

I read what you wrote, but I don't agree that parents have the most influence. They can, but often don't. Many use every excuse to be away from their children (work-a-holic Dad, for example) and many simply cannot put in the time due to financial constraints (work-a-holic Dad, for example)

I think that people are their own person from the start. If a good parent is faced with raising a child with a mental health problem, or autism, or downs syndrome, they are going to need WAY more resources (maybe more than they can get) than say, someone raising a very independant, self-reliant child. I pointed out extremes, but there are many shades in between.

I have known many families where one child is a horror, and the others do alright. This isn't because parenting was different, but because the person (the child) was different.

Someone earlier used the example of 'terrible twos' being something which many parents allow by expecting it. I tend to agree, but with important objections. Some children have MUCH more significant challenges with that stage of development than others. The same parenting skills don't work for all. If you know someone who has raised a child with autism, for example, you will know that the child will behave quite differently than a 'normal' child.

But as to what the point is to having kids, I think there is really no point. I wouldn't send my daughters back or anything, but it isn't done because there is 'a point', it is done because there are many points (and many lack any point)

Once again - unconditional love is a horrible concept, and it's horrible for everyone. Even cute little miracles like babies.

[Bella Fortuna]

Oh, this is all twaddle - everyone knows the only compelling reason to have kids is because up until the age of about six the parents get the pick of their Halloween candy!

[mistermack]

I don't agree that parents have the most influence on their kids.
Actually, it's the kids that they mix with that have the most influence. That's why some parents are prepared to pay enormous sums to buy a house near a good school. They know deep down that their kids will turn out like their schoolmates.

Immigrant kids very quickly speak with the accent of their playmates, not of their parents.
There is an evolutionary reason for this. In a tribal society, it's far safer for a kid to act and talk just like the people that they will be mixing with, as they grow up.
If you act and sound like an outsider, you will get picked on.

So my advice is, if you want your kid to grow up a certain way, choose it's playmates and schoolmates very carefully.

[tattuchu]

I thought of another reason: if you've already had one kid and he didn't turn out the way you planned. Like, if he was a fag or something, or just a real turd. I had a friend once who told his kid, "You're a rotten little shit, you know that? I can always make another kid you know. I'm gonna take you and put you right back up my dick where you came from, and then I'm gonna make a new kid. And hope he comes out better than you."