The fallacies and failure of social Darwinism.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The difference between compulsory jury service and slavery is entirely arbitrary, society says its ok then its acceptable, if society said doing a year compulsory building roads/infrastructure was ok (which some countries do as an alternative to military service) then that would be acceptable as well.

Really? You need a brain flush.

[MrJonno]

Obviously the black slave trade was acceptable for society for a long time, society and with them what is good and evil changes

[Svartalf]

You ever been called a totalitarian fascist? because that's the term that comes to me when facing an individual ready to follow any standard set by "society" (actually meaning the oligarchy at the top, and not necessarily representative of the standards personally held by the majority, though sheeple being what they are, similarity between the two is a definite possibility)

[pErvinalia]

I'm pretty sure I've called him authoritarian before.

[Robert_S]

Obviously the black slave trade was acceptable for society for a long time, society and with them what is good and evil changes

There are people who deplore the slave trade now, and there are people who defend it.

There were people who deplored the slave trade then, and there were people who defended it.

There were people who deplored the slave trade then, but saw that there was money to be made, so they acted kinda NIMBY about it.

[pErvinalia]

The answer is to have a solid constitution and bill of rights etc. But Jonno hates them as well, because they are just pieces of paper. Even though they actually tangibly work.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Obviously the black slave trade was acceptable for society for a long time, society and with them what is good and evil changes

And you think you can stretch that to cover jury duty? Idiot.

[Svartalf]

Well, if I were summoned for jury duty at an inconvenient time, I might try to play the involuntary labor card too... even though I'm mostly in favor of citizens having a hand in administering and overseeing the judicial process (not to the point of having elected judges, though)

[MrJonno]

You ever been called a totalitarian fascist? because that's the term that comes to me when facing an individual ready to follow any standard set by "society" (actually meaning the oligarchy at the top, and not necessarily representative of the standards personally held by the majority, though sheeple being what they are, similarity between the two is a definite possibility)

No I just recognise where good and evil comes from and its not god or nature (through people's believe in either can influence it). It comes from the people who live in society. The fact that few individuals ever consider themselves evil even those running concentration camps shows there can never be an absolute good or evil only what the social consensus is at the time.

Society as a whole in the past thought slavery was good, society changes and slavery is now evil. When people look back at us some of the things we do may well be seen as just as evil as slavery who knows.

[Svartalf]

It's not a manner of regarding oneself as evil, since it takes a special type of sociopath to recognize one's own evil and go on with it, it's a matter of having high standards and behaving like a civilized person in all regards, regardless of the standards of whatever "culture" you happen to be part of.

[MrJonno]

It's not a manner of regarding oneself as evil, since it takes a special type of sociopath to recognize one's own evil and go on with it, it's a matter of having high standards and behaving like a civilized person in all regards, regardless of the standards of whatever "culture" you happen to be part of.

But what counts as high standards and civilized changes, there simply can't be any absolutes. Christians like to think its god but even the most basic reading of the bible shows he is completely inconsistent (and often evil by modern standards)

[Svartalf]

If you deem it normal to flog a guy because he's black or you happen to have patrimonial rights over him, your standards are piss poor and latrine pit low, even by the the states of civilisation 2500 years ago.

[MrJonno]

If you deem it normal to flog a guy because he's black or you happen to have patrimonial rights over him, your standards are piss poor and latrine pit low, even by the the states of civilisation 2500 years ago.

Those were the norm 2500 years ago which is why I don't generally look for much moral guidance from people who have been dead for centuries, they were all savages by modern standards

[Svartalf]

Actually, the Greek treated their servile classes better than that, or the literature makes it look that way and the philosophers were encouraging in that direction.

[Seth]

Well, if I were summoned for jury duty at an inconvenient time, I might try to play the involuntary labor card too... even though I'm mostly in favor of citizens having a hand in administering and overseeing the judicial process (not to the point of having elected judges, though)

You don't have to do that, all you have to do is tell them that you are a firm and resolute supporter of Jury Nullification and you'll never spend a minute in the jury box, guaranteed.