"If you dislike feminism ... "

[Robert_S]

What if you don't dislike feminism but dislike anybody who demands you see things their way when they don't know what you see, and probably don't care.

Ah .. there is that.

I find it an extremely negative, dictatorial and, more often than not, uncomprehending brand of feminism.

If ignored, will it go away?

It's one of those things I think you have to be very careful and very precise when critiquing.

I dunno. This kind of schlock is pure Apelust stuff. It is bullying "have you stopped beating your wife yet" stuff. And bullies should always be opposed.

Here's the FB of the place i came from: https://www.facebook.com/WOMENSRIGHTSNEWS

(The all caps were how it came up in google.)

Anyway, the first few pages seem fairly OK to me.

[Cormac]

What if you don't dislike feminism but dislike anybody who demands you see things their way when they don't know what you see, and probably don't care.

Ah .. there is that.

I find it an extremely negative, dictatorial and, more often than not, uncomprehending brand of feminism.

If ignored, will it go away?

It's one of those things I think you have to be very careful and very precise when critiquing.

I dunno. This kind of schlock is pure Apelust stuff. It is bullying "have you stopped beating your wife yet" stuff. And bullies should always be opposed.

Here's the FB of the place i came from: https://www.facebook.com/WOMENSRIGHTSNEWS

(The all caps were how it came up in google.)

Anyway, the first few pages seem fairly OK to me.

That's because many people who support a humanistic world are reasonable people. Some can even recognise a eve fallacious, bigoted, or self-interested statement from an honest critique.

But that item as posted in the OP is the former, not the latter.

[piscator]

Where to start with this crap ...

I'm sure C.S. Lewis asked the same question. BTW, he would laugh at that cheezy trilemma.

[piscator]

payed less than men - Women work less than men. Are more likely to get liberal arts degrees, or some other "Find a guy and get married" college experience. Take more time from work. Work less overtime. Aren't as good with statistics...

are threatened by rape and told it's their fault - I'm sure this happens to every woman every day. The closest a man can come to contemplating a woman's world is San Quentin prison. Women are threatened by the presence of a larger and stronger gender they can't beat up, the poor things.

who are ashamed for being sexual in any way even though it's encouraged in men - "Encouraged"? By whom?

who are abused far more often than men are - "The trick is not to care." -- Tyler Durden

who men attempt to force back into blabla gender roles blah blah blah - Like "Mother", or "People who "Are abused far more often than men""?

[Xamonas Chegwé]

The kind of feminism I've been seeing online. The above was posted on Facebook, and is just one example of what I think are divisive, non-constructive assertions I've been seeing posted there. I've all but given up trying to explain my objections to their approach to the issues of equality. I feel baited by this latest one, actually so will not be drawn into it there. I guess this thread is a bit of a vent, but fark it'd be nice to read some less dogmatic responses for a change, hence posting it here.

fwiw, my immediate reaction to that one in the OP, for starters ...

1. Nope. People calling themselves feminists are portraying negativity and untruthfulness .. This OP is yet another example.

2. Nope. I am aware, have experienced and do understand.

3. Nope. And it's not just men who perpetuate gender roles. Women also do this ... and both perpetuate gender roles not only for females, but for males too.

But.. but... but... If we don't define feminism rigorously enough, all sorts of the wrong people will start claiming to be feminists: heterosexualists, conservatives, caucasians, even... MEN!!1!

[Seth]

The kind of feminism I've been seeing online. The above was posted on Facebook, and is just one example of what I think are divisive, non-constructive assertions I've been seeing posted there. I've all but given up trying to explain my objections to their approach to the issues of equality. I feel baited by this latest one, actually so will not be drawn into it there. I guess this thread is a bit of a vent, but fark it'd be nice to read some less dogmatic responses for a change, hence posting it here.

fwiw, my immediate reaction to that one in the OP, for starters ...

1. Nope. People calling themselves feminists are portraying negativity and untruthfulness .. This OP is yet another example.

2. Nope. I am aware, have experienced and do understand.

3. Nope. And it's not just men who perpetuate gender roles. Women also do this ... and both perpetuate gender roles not only for females, but for males too.

Correct. It is after all the women of the tribes in Africa who infibulate young girls and excise their clitorises (clitori?)

[laklak]

Why can't a woman be more like a man? - Prof. Henry Higgins

[Ayaan]

Why can't a woman be more like a man? - Prof. Henry Higgins

How boring would that be?

[Hermit]

Yes, people who dislike feminism do portray it in a negative light.

Yes, they do not appreciate the struggle many women have to go through on account of being female.

Yes, many of them are in fact misogynistic douchebags.

On the other hand some people calling themselves feminists don't know what it is they are talking about. To them the topic is a vehicle to vent a spleen borne of neurosis. Just look at The Hite Report or the majority of the A+ers, for example. They give the other activists campaigning for equity between the sexes a bad name.

[Cormac]

Yes, people who dislike feminism do portray it in a negative light.

Yes, they do not appreciate the struggle many women have to go through on account of being female.

Yes, many of them are in fact misogynistic douchebags.

On the other hand some people calling themselves feminists don't know what it is they are talking about. To them the topic is a vehicle to vent a spleen borne of neurosis. Just look at The Hite Report or the majority of the A+ers, for example. They give the other activists campaigning for equity between the sexes a bad name.

Unfortunately though, when feminism (proper) falls back, and feminism (spleen venting neurosis) comes to the fore, the common definition of feminism changes. At this point, arguing that feminism is the former, not the latter approaches the No True Scotsman fallacy.

[Cormac]

Yes, people who dislike feminism do portray it in a negative light.

Yes, they do not appreciate the struggle many women have to go through on account of being female.

Yes, many of them are in fact misogynistic douchebags.

On the other hand some people calling themselves feminists don't know what it is they are talking about. To them the topic is a vehicle to vent a spleen borne of neurosis. Just look at The Hite Report or the majority of the A+ers, for example. They give the other activists campaigning for equity between the sexes a bad name.

...and in any case, the spleen venting weirdness is neither new nor strange to feminism. When I studied feminism in university from 92-95, we studied text just like Apelust guff, going back 30-40 years.

[Hermit]

Yes, people who dislike feminism do portray it in a negative light.

Yes, they do not appreciate the struggle many women have to go through on account of being female.

Yes, many of them are in fact misogynistic douchebags.

On the other hand some people calling themselves feminists don't know what it is they are talking about. To them the topic is a vehicle to vent a spleen borne of neurosis. Just look at The Hite Report or the majority of the A+ers, for example. They give the other activists campaigning for equity between the sexes a bad name.

Unfortunately though, when feminism (proper) falls back, and feminism (spleen venting neurosis) comes to the fore, the common definition of feminism changes. At this point, arguing that feminism is the former, not the latter approaches the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Yes, and yes. And I very much regret that this is so.

[fishie]

Yes, people who dislike feminism do portray it in a negative light.

Yes, they do not appreciate the struggle many women have to go through on account of being female.

Yes, many of them are in fact misogynistic douchebags.

On the other hand some people calling themselves feminists don't know what it is they are talking about. To them the topic is a vehicle to vent a spleen borne of neurosis. Just look at The Hite Report or the majority of the A+ers, for example. They give the other activists campaigning for equity between the sexes a bad name.

Unfortunately though, when feminism (proper) falls back, and feminism (spleen venting neurosis) comes to the fore, the common definition of feminism changes. At this point, arguing that feminism is the former, not the latter approaches the No True Scotsman fallacy.

Please, what's feminism proper? And how does it work?

[Hermit]

Please, what's feminism proper? And how does it work?

Feminism proper is about seeking opportunities for women that are equal to those of men. Giving them access to the polling booth and to tertiary education are two examples of how feminism has worked in the not so recent past. Equal pay for equal work is another. Fortunately it is no longer deemed necessary to throw oneself underneath a horse to make it work. Networking and lobbying will suffice nowadays.

[fishie]

Please, what's feminism proper? And how does it work?

Feminism proper is about seeking opportunities for women that are equal to those of men. Giving them access to the polling booth and to tertiary education are two examples of how feminism has worked in the not so recent past. Equal pay for equal work is another. Fortunately it is no longer deemed necessary to throw oneself underneath a horse to make it work. Networking and lobbying will suffice nowadays.

So how does proper feminism combat social issues?