Some questions about democracy

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Audley Strange
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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by Audley Strange » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:31 pm

John_fi_Skye wrote:Democracy my arse. It's a sham. Typically in a UK general election, one party will win a substantial overall majority in parliament by gaining 40% of the popular vote. And to see the value of a popular vote you've only got to look at some of the dross people watch and vote for in "reality" or "talent" TV shows - especially the "celebrity" ones, in which people with little or no talent are lauded as wonderful, and votes are cast in their millions to endorse such opinions. And our media certainly aren't free: they may be free of government control, but they're very firmly under editorial control, and editors are paid by and accountable to owners.

But because democracy is thought to be "a good thing", we just get more and more and more of it. As I've posted before, we should elect two levels of representatives: one to run local services like bin collection, and one to run national services like the health service. That's all we need. Whereas I and all those morons who vote for people to be evicted from the Big Brother House, and all those morons who voted either way last year to decide whether a performing dog was the most talented Briton, get to vote for the local authority, and for the Scottish parliament in Edinburgh, and for the UK parliament in London, and for the European parliament in Brussels. Four levels! What for? So that instead of just deciding who's best at running our bin collection and our health service effectively and efficiently, we get lost in alleged debate which for some unaccountable reason requires people to split up into parties, and if you're in Party X you just of course have to oppose anything Party Y ever says. And if Party X is in power at a level which decides on the allocation of money to the level below in which Party Y is in power, the two parties can just endlessly blame each other for the fact that services aren't operating well. If we just had fewer fucking levels, we'd save politicians' salaries and expenses, as well as all the money we spend on their secretaries, civil servants, speech writers, spin doctors and all the rest. And then we'd be able to use the money we've saved, to improve the services the politicians should be running for us.

And again because democracy's such a "good thing", we have to extend it to electing mayors, and electing the individuals who oversee each police force, and if we do away with the monarchy we'll have to elect a fucking president! May I have died of alcoholic poisoning before I ever see the day!

And may all those turkeys I've been referring to vote for the best Christmas gift ever: the wholesale reduction in their own numbers! Wait a minute! What's that fat pink thing up in the sky there? It's a fucking pig!
I had a lovely big Fiskian answer there and lost it... Bah.. Anyway

You seem to have a twofold issue. In short the public are too stupid and the amount of voting leads to voter fatigue. The public, well, take the lowest IQ of the group and divide it by the number in said group and you have the IQ of such a group, so to speak. However while I agree that there is a lot of voter fatigue, since you point out that the simps have no issue in voting for T.V. shows, perhaps its the rigmarole involved that puts them off?

Also Drink deeply John old man, before long we'll be voting on whether the traffic lights should change. Sláinte.
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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by Audley Strange » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:33 pm

Svartalf wrote:Fuck heinlein.
Most sensible thing you've said all week. Also, You alright? You seem to be embedded in the lower stratum of doldrums.
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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by Svartalf » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:34 pm

End of year depression, plus my natural sunny disposition, plus bronchitis... not gonna do a Jen if that's what you're worrying about.
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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:41 pm

Svartalf wrote:Fuck heinlein.
Passenger.

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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by Audley Strange » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:41 pm

Svartalf wrote:End of year depression, plus my natural sunny disposition, plus bronchitis... not gonna do a Jen if that's what you're worrying about.
I wasn't (who's Jen?). I hope you get better soon. I often suffer from S.A.D or whatever the fuck they're calling it this year.
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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by John_fi_Skye » Thu Jan 03, 2013 4:51 pm

"Drink deeply John old man"

I love it! :td:
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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by MrJonno » Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:28 pm

How about most populations are generally content in the Western world and don't care about politics too much as they don't need to.

If you live in a society where the wrong sort of government is likely to get you killed you tend to be interested in politics. In the UK we currently have a government that I didnt vote for, I've also been around when there have been governments that I did vote for but how much difference did it really make to my life. Governments were not the main factor in whether I had a job, they didnt allow me to meet my wife. They don't determine if their is decent TV on on whether there are any good computer games to play.

Government is not as important as many people make out in their day to day lives
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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by John_fi_Skye » Fri Jan 04, 2013 11:12 pm

So, cull them.

A wise person once said, "It doesn't matter who you vote for, the government always gets in."
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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:26 am

I like the idea of a politician cull... :eddy:
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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by Audley Strange » Sat Jan 05, 2013 4:56 am

I think it was the Celts or perhaps the Picts or Vikings (Some NW pre-Euro crazies) who used to choose a leader for 7 years and at the end of that term the clan or tribe had the option of executing such if they were not satisfied with their rule.

Stick that option into a constitution and watch the pricks vanish.
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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by Hermit » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:23 am

Trundling out Winston Churchill for the umpteenth time:

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

and

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by John_fi_Skye » Sat Jan 05, 2013 8:14 am

Hermit wrote:Trundling out Winston Churchill for the umpteenth time:

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

and

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
Churchill would've made a good king. He wasn't the world's greatest exponent of democratic principles.
Pray, do not mock me: I am a very foolish fond old man; And, to deal plainly, I fear I am not in my perfect mind.

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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by Hermit » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:02 am

John_fi_Skye wrote:
Hermit wrote:Trundling out Winston Churchill for the umpteenth time:

"The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter."

and

"Democracy is the worst form of government, except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time."
Churchill would've made a good king. He wasn't the world's greatest exponent of democratic principles.
Agreed, but I think, taken in conjunction, those two quotes encapsulate the conundrum that is inherent in democracy.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by John_fi_Skye » Sat Jan 05, 2013 9:46 am

Yes. Sort of. For me, though, it's about how averages rarely tell you much. All the votes that respresent diverse opinions get mushed together - I'm thinking mainly about the UK - and we end up with somebody having a mandate for policies that not many folk wanted, and the general understanding, supported by our daft media, is that we've got the outcome most of us had wished for. It's all so much guff.
Pray, do not mock me: I am a very foolish fond old man; And, to deal plainly, I fear I am not in my perfect mind.

Blah blah blah blah blah!

Memo to self: no Lir chocolates.

Life is glorious.

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Re: Some questions about democracy

Post by Hermit » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:05 am

John_fi_Skye wrote:Yes. Sort of. For me, though, it's about how averages rarely tell you much. All the votes that respresent diverse opinions get mushed together - I'm thinking mainly about the UK - and we end up with somebody having a mandate for policies that not many folk wanted, and the general understanding, supported by our daft media, is that we've got the outcome most of us had wished for. It's all so much guff.
Yes. So much guff. So, suggest a better alternative to democracy, if you please.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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