First World War Beyond Living Memory So Let It Rest?

[laklak]

Some of the naval battles were epic - Coral Sea, Midway, Philippine Sea, Leyte. Jutland was bigger in total tonnage engaged, IIRC, but Philippine Sea had 24 carriers and over 1700 aircraft engaged. A dust-up of note, that one.

[rasetsu]

I'm aware of all of those. Do you have number of troops deployed to go with the pictures and places? What makes a battle, imo, is the scale of the engagement.

Iwo Jima
72,000 U.S.
22,000 Japanese

Pearl Harbor
The base was attacked by 353 Japanese fighters, bombers and torpedo planes in two waves, launched from six aircraft carriers. All eight U.S. Navy battleships were damaged, with four being sunk. Of these eight damaged, two were raised, and with four repaired, six battleships returned to service later in the war. The Japanese also sank or damaged three cruisers, three destroyers, an anti-aircraft training ship,[nb 4] and one minelayer. 188 U.S. aircraft were destroyed; 2,402 Americans were killed and 1,282 wounded. The power station, shipyard, maintenance, and fuel and torpedo storage facilities, as well as the submarine piers and headquarters building (also home of the intelligence section) were not attacked. Japanese losses were light: 29 aircraft and five midget submarines lost, and 65 servicemen killed or wounded.


Midway

Allied
3 carriers
~25 support ships
233 carrier-based aircraft
127 land-based aircraft

Japanese
4 carriers
2 battleships
~15 support ships
248 carrier-based aircraft[1]
16 floatplanes


Guadalcanal
60,000 U.S.
36,000 Japanese


Corregidor
13,000 U.S.
75,000 Japanese

[laklak]

I never got to meet my Uncle Jim (mom's older brother), because he was killed at Iwo.

[Jason]

Pearl Harbour I'd discount as a battle, but the rest count I would think.

[rasetsu]

Pearl Harbour I'd discount as a battle, but the rest count I would think.

You're right. Pearl Harbor was a hockey game disguised as a battle.

[laklak]

Leyte Gulf, though it was actually 4 separate engagements, was all triggered by the same Japanese battle plan.

Number for both fleets combined:
Over 200,000 men
36 heavy, escort and light carriers
21 battleships
43 cruisers
175 destroyers
about 2000 aircraft.

That's just the big stuff.

[klr]

WWI was a bloody, muddy, mess. It was, in my opinion, a far more terrifying war from the point of view of your average soldier than WWII. It was, however, very dull in comparison. WWII had much more action and, instead of an inscrutable Kaiser and some other silly hatted monarchs, there was Hitler and Churchill, Patton and Rommel, and it the theatre of war was much larger and global.

I challenge you to name one WWI general without searching. Battles are easy.. Dieppe, Ypres, etc.. WWII did not have many such epic battles except Hurtgen, Berlin, and some few others, but it was rapid action packed.

Hmmmm ...

Foch
Petain
Mangin
Nivelle
Joffre
Ludendorff
von Hindenburg
von Moltke
von Falkenhayn
von Lettow-Vorbeck
Haig
French
Pershing
Smuts
Brusilov
von Rennenkampf
Monash

...etc. Some of those are field-marshals, but that's just a "super-general" in my book. And I'm ignoring the leading naval and air commanders.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Oh I'm forgetting the Pacific. There were a lot of hard fought victories there for the U.S., but not exactly 'battle' scale.

[klr]

The Marines, Navy, Army, Seabees, etc. who fought in all of those battles might take issue with the idea that they weren't really "battles" because they didn't involve that many troops by the standards of some other campaigns. The ratio of casualties to personnel committed was extremely high in many Pacific battles - and that's just on the American side. On the Japanese side, a mortality rate of 97-98% was normal for most encounters.

[Seabass]

Oh I'm forgetting the Pacific. There were a lot of hard fought victories there for the U.S., but not exactly 'battle' scale.

[Jason]

Pearl Harbour I'd discount as a battle, but the rest count I would think.

You're right. Pearl Harbor was a hockey game disguised as a battle.

I think you may have watched the movie too many times? It's not a battle if one side is doing 90% or more of the bombing.. hell there wasn't even any real engagement of the Japanese forces.

[Jason]

Oh I'm forgetting the Pacific. There were a lot of hard fought victories there for the U.S., but not exactly 'battle' scale.

Compared to the battles of WWI? Yeah. Everything is relative.

I granted 3 of 4 from Rasetsu's list.

[Hermit]

Lest we forget...

Yes. Forgetting the past - recent or distant - is not a good idea. To illustrate, a strip Gawdzilla posted recently:



War technology has changed radically since 1914,and nobody who experienced WWI personally is alive now, but the principle that enables wars from occurring remains:

• Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. - Herman Göring

The problem is not that we remember what we don't need to; the problem is that we don't remember enough of what we need to. All wars are part of the latter.

[Jason]

• Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship. ...voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country. - Herman Göring

Quote of the week.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Pearl Harbour I'd discount as a battle, but the rest count I would think.

You're right. Pearl Harbor was a hockey game disguised as a battle.

Well fuck me. I'm going to take up knitting.