Vegetarianism, atheism and morality.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I don't have a problem with eating meat. I don't have a problem arguing that if lions do it, we can too, with a clean conscience. I don't have a problem saying that we as humans aren't more highly evolved than any other species on Earth, because quite frankly, we aren't.

I refuse to wrings my hands over my biological inheritance.

It should be noted as well that vegetarianism also kills animals given that farmland destroys wild habitat and most species cannot adapt quickly enough. Granted that it isn't as many animals as are killed by the slaughterhouse, but all hands are bloody, and to pretend otherwise strikes me as often self-congratulatory.

[JimC]

Certainly free range for chicken and eggs. In Oz, lamb and beef are pretty much all grass-fed rather than the result of intensive lot feeding, some pork is too. The animals have a better life in such conditions.

We eat vegetarian or fish around half the time. Certainly, in the west, on average, people have a somewhat excessive consumption of meat.

But, those provisos aside, I am at ease with eating meat.

[tattuchu]

Certainly free range for chicken and eggs. In Oz, lamb and beef are pretty much all grass-fed rather than the result of intensive lot feeding, some pork is too. The animals have a better life in such conditions.

We eat vegetarian or fish around half the time. Certainly, in the west, on average, people have a somewhat excessive consumption of meat.

But, those provisos aside, I am at ease with eating meat.

That sounds wonderful. Here in the U.S., sadly, all meat you find in the grocery store is factory farmed. Up until recently, it was impossible to find anything other than factory farmed meat. Now it's attainable, but still difficult to find.

[amused]

This topic was discussed in a 77 page thread at RatSkep:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/post3 ... at#p349799

I've switched to mostly fish, lentils&rice, eggs, and whey powder for protein sources. I did BBQ a ton of pork chops and t-bone steaks in the past, and the only regret I feel is for what that did to my heart's arteries.

[tattuchu]

This topic was discussed in a 77 page thread at RatSkep:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/post3 ... at#p349799

I've switched to mostly fish, lentils&rice, eggs, and whey powder for protein sources. I did BBQ a ton of pork chops and t-bone steaks in the past, and the only regret I feel is for what that did to my heart's arteries.

What do you do with the whey powder? And why whey powder as opposed to just milk and cheese?

p.s. I eat a lot of nuts now, too. Something I never did in the past. In the past, as well, it was almost impossible to find nuts that weren't salted. Now I can go to Whole Foods or Trader Joe's and find a wide variety of shelled unsalted raw nuts.

[Seabass]

This topic was discussed in a 77 page thread at RatSkep:

http://www.rationalskepticism.org/post3 ... at#p349799

I've switched to mostly fish, lentils&rice, eggs, and whey powder for protein sources. I did BBQ a ton of pork chops and t-bone steaks in the past, and the only regret I feel is for what that did to my heart's arteries.

Mmmmmm... pork chops.... t-bone....

This thread is making me hungry.

[amused]

I mostly put the whey powder in fruit yogurt and cereal to up the protein content, and make me feel like it's better for me.

And dare I say it, but cheese is really bad for your health.

[Tero]

I eat meat, but never quite understood this craze for burned meat ("barbeque" they claim): I can just take some carbon pills if I need to treat my innards to that. Roast beef OK, ham in thin slices on bread. Real ham once a year at cHristmas.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Certainly free range for chicken and eggs. In Oz, lamb and beef are pretty much all grass-fed rather than the result of intensive lot feeding, some pork is too. The animals have a better life in such conditions.

We eat vegetarian or fish around half the time. Certainly, in the west, on average, people have a somewhat excessive consumption of meat.

But, those provisos aside, I am at ease with eating meat.

That sounds wonderful. Here in the U.S., sadly, all meat you find in the grocery store is factory farmed. Up until recently, it was impossible to find anything other than factory farmed meat. Now it's attainable, but still difficult to find.

Not all meat. Trader Joe's, Fresh'n'Easy, Lassens, and other chains here in California sell open-range meats.

[tattuchu]

Certainly free range for chicken and eggs. In Oz, lamb and beef are pretty much all grass-fed rather than the result of intensive lot feeding, some pork is too. The animals have a better life in such conditions.

We eat vegetarian or fish around half the time. Certainly, in the west, on average, people have a somewhat excessive consumption of meat.

But, those provisos aside, I am at ease with eating meat.

That sounds wonderful. Here in the U.S., sadly, all meat you find in the grocery store is factory farmed. Up until recently, it was impossible to find anything other than factory farmed meat. Now it's attainable, but still difficult to find.

Not all meat. Trader Joe's, Fresh'n'Easy, Lassens, and other chains here in California sell open-range meats.

Yup, but it's a fairly recent phenomenon, isn't it? And even the grass-fed beef I get at Trader Joe's is imported...from New Zealand
Speaking of imported meat, Whole Foods sells Icelandic lamb. But only certain times of the year. I wonder if now is one of those times

note: Just checked. Icelandic lamb only available September to early December.

[Robert_S]

I'll eat some on occasion, but not much. I've not had any bacon since last July.

I hate the thought of killing an animal for a meal if it isn't necessary, but I will not deny the deliciousness of meat. So, I'll eat some fish and seafood now and then, with the occasional meat on special occasions and holidays.

[Tero]

I hate the thought of killing an animal for a meal if it isn't necessary, but I will not deny the deliciousness of meat. So, I'll eat some fish and seafood now and then, with the occasional meat on special occasions and holidays.

Oh so now it's OK to eat the small brained fish and not the mammals? Why don't we just fry earthworms, they just feel pain and life has no meaning for them.

[Robert_S]

I hate the thought of killing an animal for a meal if it isn't necessary, but I will not deny the deliciousness of meat. So, I'll eat some fish and seafood now and then, with the occasional meat on special occasions and holidays.

Oh so now it's OK to eat the small brained fish and not the mammals? Why don't we just fry earthworms, they just feel pain and life has no meaning for them.

I've not tried them. It's not about eating fish being OK, but about less not OK.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Yup, but it's a fairly recent phenomenon, isn't it?

Out here, it's been around for seven or eight years that I know of. It's starting to move into the big chains (Von's/Safeway, Ralph's/Kroger).

And even the grass-fed beef I get at Trader Joe's is imported...from New Zealand

Well, we were talking about it being in supermarkets, not where it's sourced, but I know for a fact that there are free-range ranches here; there's one up the road outside Carpinteria. Granted, it's still a very small slice of the market, due mainly to expense, I imagine.

[JimC]

I hate the thought of killing an animal for a meal if it isn't necessary, but I will not deny the deliciousness of meat. So, I'll eat some fish and seafood now and then, with the occasional meat on special occasions and holidays.

Oh so now it's OK to eat the small brained fish and not the mammals? Why don't we just fry earthworms, they just feel pain and life has no meaning for them.

I've not tried them. It's not about eating fish being OK, but about less not OK.

Oysters, clams and mussels, being sessile filter feeders, have a less complex nervous system than any motile organism like an earthworm. Ethically, they could virtually be considered the equivalent of plants in terms of being eaten by us...