Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

User avatar
Toontown
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:26 am
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Toontown » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:09 am

If you ask a question like that, we have license to answer any way we choose. It's not like any of us can definitively and falsifiably answer the question. So I'm answering it like this:

Fundamental reality is different from spacetime reality. Spacetime emerges from fundamental reality, but isn't much like fundamental reality, just as a tree is not much like the ground from which it grows or the seed from which it sprouts.

Which means that the logic of fundamental reality is not much like spacetime logic. You all being spacetime critters, fundamental logic is just naturally going to be counterintuitive to you.

At the fundamental level, the question "Why is there something instead of nothing?" is a false dichotomy. Why wouldn't there be both something and nothing? What prevents either one? Why can't an acausal quantum fluctuation happen in the midst of nothingness? What's to stop it?

That which is not prohibited is mandatory. Or at least probable.

The Void is nothingness, but it is not absolute nothingness. The Void fluctuates acausally. Positive and negative energy spikes in the Void all sum to zero energy, and yet the energy spikes exist. So the Void is both something and nothing. It is something that sums to nothing.

But the part that really ties a spacetime critter's brain up in a knot is the fact that our pocket universe is arbitrary. Everything about it is arbitrary. All it's components are arbitrary. The thing started out as an acausal quantum fluctuation in a Void. Hell, it could have been a teapot, or Yosemite Sam. But it had to be something. And the only reason we, specifically are in this specific pocket universe is because this is the one we, specifically, would be in. We wouldn't be in a Yosemite Sam universe, now would we. No. We would be in a universe like this.

But the really scary part is, our identities are also arbitrary. We didn't have to be the fine young monkeys we are now at all. We could have been a bunch of dumbass YosemiteSamverse critters, and may yet find ourselves in some such predicament, and, hypothetically, numerous other less than ideal predicaments. I don't hope to end up in any such predicament, but think about it. It was a damn wooish quantum fluctuation. In a freakish Void.

User avatar
Robert_S
Cookie Monster
Posts: 13416
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:47 am
About me: Too young to die of boredom, too old to grow up.
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Robert_S » Fri Oct 21, 2011 4:50 am

Looks like I picked the wrong decade to stop dropping acid! :hehe:

Hey Toontown! Long time no see, hows things going?
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
-Mr P

The Net is best considered analogous to communication with disincarnate intelligences. As any neophyte would tell you. Do not invoke that which you have no facility to banish.
Audley Strange

User avatar
Toontown
Posts: 422
Joined: Mon Mar 01, 2010 11:26 am
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Toontown » Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:15 am

Robert_S wrote:Looks like I picked the wrong decade to stop dropping acid! :hehe:

Hey Toontown! Long time no see, hows things going?
Hey Robert. There is no wrong decade to stop dropping acid. You don''t need no freaking wierd pills. Reality is wierd enough. :what:

For me, things are going well, thank you. :coffee: For the rest of the world, not so much. :banghead:

User avatar
Audley Strange
"I blame the victim"
Posts: 7485
Joined: Wed Jun 08, 2011 5:00 pm
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Audley Strange » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:45 pm

Because we invented the words "is" "nothing" and "something"
"What started as a legitimate effort by the townspeople of Salem to identify, capture and kill those who did Satan's bidding quickly deteriorated into a witch hunt" Army Man

User avatar
Mysturji
Clint Eastwood
Posts: 5005
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 4:08 pm
About me: Downloading an app to my necktop
Location: http://tinyurl.com/c9o35ny
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Mysturji » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:40 pm

As you read the words upon this screen, you realise that the message you are receiving is not an attribute of the letters of the words themselves: The printed line does not contain information, it transmits information.
Where, then, is the information you are receiving, if it is not upon the screen?
Sir Figg Newton wrote:If I have seen further than others, it is only because I am surrounded by midgets.
Cormac wrote:Doom predictors have been with humans right through our history. They are like the proverbial stopped clock - right twice a day, but not due to the efficacy of their prescience.
IDMD2
I am a twit.

User avatar
mistermack
Posts: 15093
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2010 10:57 am
About me: Never rong.
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by mistermack » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:45 pm

It's a false choice.
Why should there be something INSTEAD of nothing.
There is in fact plenty of both. But there is a lot more of nothing, than there is of something.
Infinitely more.
While there is a market for shit, there will be assholes to supply it.

User avatar
Drewish
I'm with stupid /\
Posts: 4705
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Drewish » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:53 pm

There is nothing. PROVE ME WRONG!!!! :P
Nobody expects me...

User avatar
Schneibster
Asker of inconvenient questions
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
About me: I hate cranks.
Location: Late. I'm always late.
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Schneibster » Mon Nov 07, 2011 4:58 pm

Uncertainty. Nothing might not actually be nothing all the time, just nothing on average.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
Image

User avatar
Drewish
I'm with stupid /\
Posts: 4705
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Drewish » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:00 pm

Image
Nobody expects me...

User avatar
Animavore
Nasty Hombre
Posts: 39276
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am
Location: Ire Land.
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Animavore » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:07 pm

Isn't this just one of those questions theists ask followed by a load of waffle ending in, "Because God"?
At which point the clever-clogs asks, "Why is there God rather than nothing"?
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

User avatar
Schneibster
Asker of inconvenient questions
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
About me: I hate cranks.
Location: Late. I'm always late.
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Schneibster » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:08 pm

Well, they used to get away with that. Until we found out that nothing isn't really nothing.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
Image

User avatar
Animavore
Nasty Hombre
Posts: 39276
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am
Location: Ire Land.
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Animavore » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:12 pm

Someone should tell them.
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

User avatar
Schneibster
Asker of inconvenient questions
Posts: 3976
Joined: Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:22 pm
About me: I hate cranks.
Location: Late. I'm always late.
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Schneibster » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:13 pm

Everyone did. They don't believe it because it means their super magic sky daddy doesn't exist.
Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. -Daniel Patrick Moynihan
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -Thomas Jefferson
Image

User avatar
Animavore
Nasty Hombre
Posts: 39276
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 11:26 am
Location: Ire Land.
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Animavore » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:22 pm

Only if they insist on trying to use abuse science to make it seem like scientists are only coming to realise what they knew all along ( :snork: ). The more prudent theist, like Georges Lemaître, would say that God is a matter for the heart and not embarrass themselves by trying to use science to prove God.
Of course he had the advantage of being a scientist, unlike other theologians like WLC.
Libertarianism: The belief that out of all the terrible things governments can do, helping people is the absolute worst.

User avatar
Drewish
I'm with stupid /\
Posts: 4705
Joined: Tue Sep 08, 2009 6:31 pm
Contact:

Re: Why is there somehing instead of npthing?

Post by Drewish » Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:42 pm

Nobody expects me...

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests