Important if you are thinking of using Bath Salts/Mephedrone

[Coito ergo sum]

Am I right in thinking mephedrone is like ecstasy that you sniff?
And it seems most people on this site are into drugs I'm shocked and little disappointed...

Why would it shock and disappoint you? You drink beer right? Several illegal drugs are less harmful than beer. They are illegal for mostly stupid reasons.

I don't know really a part of me just expects everyone to be perfect on the internet which is about a daft as you can get I know. I just imagined everyone to be better people than I.

You seem to think that doing drugs is bad or makes you less of a person?

Drugs can be bad, and can destroy people's lives. Often, the endeavor is a pointless exercise - a waste of time - and depending on the drug and the quantities consumed, they can damage the body and the brain.

[Pappa]

Am I right in thinking mephedrone is like ecstasy that you sniff?
And it seems most people on this site are into drugs I'm shocked and little disappointed...

Why would it shock and disappoint you? You drink beer right? Several illegal drugs are less harmful than beer. They are illegal for mostly stupid reasons.

I don't know really a part of me just expects everyone to be perfect on the internet which is about a daft as you can get I know. I just imagined everyone to be better people than I.

You seem to think that doing drugs is bad or makes you less of a person?

Drugs can be bad, and can destroy people's lives. Often, the endeavor is a pointless exercise - a waste of time - and depending on the drug and the quantities consumed, they can damage the body and the brain.

They may have the capability to destroy lives but they're not inherently bad. It's the way they're used that causes problems, and legal drugs can be abused just as badly as illegal ones.

[Coito ergo sum]

They may have the capability to destroy lives but they're not inherently bad. It's the way they're used that causes problems, and legal drugs can be abused just as badly as illegal ones.

Of course.

However, a strong legal drug normally requires a prescription and dosage is regulated, and they are at least supposed to be taken for a purpose, and it is not considered a good idea to use legal prescription medications for recreational purposes. Things like heroin and cocaine used to be prescribed by physicians as prescription medications. They're not anymore.

From my perspective, there isn't any real reason to ingest cocaine or heroin or methamphetamines and stuff like that. These extremely strong medications that would normally be drugs that if consumed at all would be by prescription from a trained physician. The average dick on the street isn't a trained physician and is taking a drug that is serving no medical need. The highly addictive nature of the drugs, coupled with their serious effects on the human brain (depending on quantities and time, etc.), make them extremely dangerous.

No substance in the world is "inherently bad" - they're just chemical compounds.

[Pappa]

They may have the capability to destroy lives but they're not inherently bad. It's the way they're used that causes problems, and legal drugs can be abused just as badly as illegal ones.

Of course.

However, a strong legal drug normally requires a prescription and dosage is regulated, and they are at least supposed to be taken for a purpose, and it is not considered a good idea to use legal prescription medications for recreational purposes. Things like heroin and cocaine used to be prescribed by physicians as prescription medications. They're not anymore.

From my perspective, there isn't any real reason to ingest cocaine or heroin or methamphetamines and stuff like that. These extremely strong medications that would normally be drugs that if consumed at all would be by prescription from a trained physician. The average dick on the street isn't a trained physician and is taking a drug that is serving no medical need. The highly addictive nature of the drugs, coupled with their serious effects on the human brain (depending on quantities and time, etc.), make them extremely dangerous.

No substance in the world is "inherently bad" - they're just chemical compounds.

Alcohol has consistently been shown to be more harmful than (for example) MDMA. The sensationalist articles linked to could easily have been rewritten about alcohol. Look, I did one a few years ago satirizing an almost identical article about Salvia divinorum:

http://www.plot55.com/brew/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7071010.stm

[Bella Fortuna]

Am I right in thinking mephedrone is like ecstasy that you sniff?
And it seems most people on this site are into drugs I'm shocked and little disappointed...

I'm not. A few others aren't.

[Pappa]

Am I right in thinking mephedrone is like ecstasy that you sniff?
And it seems most people on this site are into drugs I'm shocked and little disappointed...

I'm not. A few others aren't.

It doesn't really appear to be more common here than it does among the general population. I'd say it seems about the same.

[Bella Fortuna]

Am I right in thinking mephedrone is like ecstasy that you sniff?
And it seems most people on this site are into drugs I'm shocked and little disappointed...

I'm not. A few others aren't.

It doesn't really appear to be more common here than it does among the general population. I'd say it seems about the same.

I'm sure I'm the freak since I've never tried anything. But that's the kind of freakishness I like.

[Coito ergo sum]

They may have the capability to destroy lives but they're not inherently bad. It's the way they're used that causes problems, and legal drugs can be abused just as badly as illegal ones.

Of course.

However, a strong legal drug normally requires a prescription and dosage is regulated, and they are at least supposed to be taken for a purpose, and it is not considered a good idea to use legal prescription medications for recreational purposes. Things like heroin and cocaine used to be prescribed by physicians as prescription medications. They're not anymore.

From my perspective, there isn't any real reason to ingest cocaine or heroin or methamphetamines and stuff like that. These extremely strong medications that would normally be drugs that if consumed at all would be by prescription from a trained physician. The average dick on the street isn't a trained physician and is taking a drug that is serving no medical need. The highly addictive nature of the drugs, coupled with their serious effects on the human brain (depending on quantities and time, etc.), make them extremely dangerous.

No substance in the world is "inherently bad" - they're just chemical compounds.

Alcohol has consistently been shown to be more harmful than (for example) MDMA. The sensationalist articles linked to could easily have been rewritten about alcohol. Look, I did one a few years ago satirizing an almost identical article about Salvia divinorum:

http://www.plot55.com/brew/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7071010.stm

One, that doesn't make drugs less dangerous than they are, and obviously everything depends on the kind of drug, and amounts consumed.

Moderate alcohol consumption has been shown to have beneficial health effects.

I'm not sure that alcohol has consistently been shown to be "more harmful" than MDMA, except because so many more people use alcohol. Hardly anybody, relatively speaking, uses MDMA.

[Pappa]

Am I right in thinking mephedrone is like ecstasy that you sniff?
And it seems most people on this site are into drugs I'm shocked and little disappointed...

I'm not. A few others aren't.

It doesn't really appear to be more common here than it does among the general population. I'd say it seems about the same.

I'm sure I'm the freak since I've never tried anything. But that's the kind of freakishness I like.

Freak!

But seriously though.... I never think anyone's odd for choosing not to use drugs (as that would be daft), I just get a bit annoyed when people (naively in my view) assume that people who use illegal drugs are deficient in some way or it's wrong that they do... especially when almost all those same people consume alcohol.

The majority of illegal drug users hold down jobs, pay taxes, pay bills, bring up kids, obey the law (the other ones ).... just as successfully as people who don't use illegal drugs. Even among 'hard drug' users the reality is far different from the media stereotype. 80% of heroin addicts in the UK pay for their drug with their wages from their job. They don't steal, deal drugs or resort to breaking any other crimes to get their heroin. That's a far cry from the image the media present about heroin addicts.

[Pappa]

One, that doesn't make drugs less dangerous than they are, and obviously everything depends on the kind of drug, and amounts consumed.

No, all drugs have an element of harm... but the media and governments consistently overestimate the relative risk of illegal drugs. Rock climbing and hill walking are more dangerous than MDMA, but nobody would consider banning them, that would be stupid, right?

Moderate alcohol consumption has been shown to have beneficial health effects.

Again using MDMA as an example. The studies that have shown it to be harmful show harm occurring at usage levels way above what would be considered normal (recreational) usage. I've not seen of any studies looking for beneficial health effects, perhaps because it's so difficult for researcher to get licences and funding to study these kinds of drugs... they're never going to be able to look for positive effects. In the 60s and 70s it showed promise (when used in low dosages) as an aid in councelling. I'm sure that is an area it could be very beneficial in if more research was done first.

I'm not sure that alcohol has consistently been shown to be "more harmful" than MDMA, except because so many more people use alcohol. Hardly anybody, relatively speaking, uses MDMA.

It has been shown in many studies to be more harmful than MDMA. The British ACMD (who's job it is to advice government policy on drugs) has repeatedly listed it MDMA as less harmful than alcohol.

As for the relative numbers? That doesn't really matter. Enough people use MDMA to get a very good sample. The British Crime Survey (self reported to a questioner in your own home) consistently shows over half a million people having used it in the past year.

[Coito ergo sum]

Am I right in thinking mephedrone is like ecstasy that you sniff?
And it seems most people on this site are into drugs I'm shocked and little disappointed...

I'm not. A few others aren't.

It doesn't really appear to be more common here than it does among the general population. I'd say it seems about the same.

I'm sure I'm the freak since I've never tried anything. But that's the kind of freakishness I like.

"Don't drink - Don't smoke - what do you do?" - Adam Ant.

[Coito ergo sum]

One, that doesn't make drugs less dangerous than they are, and obviously everything depends on the kind of drug, and amounts consumed.

No, all drugs have an element of harm... but the media and governments consistently overestimate the relative risk of illegal drugs. Rock climbing and hill walking are more dangerous than MDMA, but nobody would consider banning them, that would be stupid, right?

To me, yes. But, I've heard some folks suggest the idea...

But, nevertheless, I'm not in favor of banning them. I think most of the "relative risk" when comparing alcohol to hard drugs end up comparing apples to oranges. They are used in different ways, and it's one thing for something to pose a long term risk down the road (cirrhosis of the liver, e.g.), and a short term risk of overdose or leaping out of a window or something. Plus, I think the hard drugs tend to interfere more with daily existence - people can leave work, go to the pub, knock back a few, and get up the next day and go to work. I'm not so sure it's that way with heroin. But, that's just my impression, as I've never done heroin.

Moderate alcohol consumption has been shown to have beneficial health effects.

Again using MDMA as an example. The studies that have shown it to be harmful show harm occurring at usage levels way above what would be considered normal (recreational) usage.

It seems to me harder to control dosage in a substance like MDMA than alcohol. But, nevertheless, I don't think it should be illegal anyway. I know I'd rather have my kids have a beer than do ecstasy, though. I am pretty sure the psychotropic effects of ecstasy are more severe than alcohol.

I've not seen of any studies looking for beneficial health effects, perhaps because it's so difficult for researcher to get licences and funding to study these kinds of drugs... they're never going to be able to look for positive effects. In the 60s and 70s it showed promise (when used in low dosages) as an aid in councelling. I'm sure that is an area it could be very beneficial in if more research was done first.

Maybe.

I'm not sure that alcohol has consistently been shown to be "more harmful" than MDMA, except because so many more people use alcohol. Hardly anybody, relatively speaking, uses MDMA.

It has been shown in many studies to be more harmful than MDMA.

In what way? The articles I've read on it all appear a bit slippery in their use of language. Some of them refer to drunk driving accidents, for example, which is not harm caused to the user by mere use of the substance.

The British ACMD (who's job it is to advice government policy on drugs) has repeatedly listed it MDMA as less harmful than alcohol.

Less harmful to whom? Society as a whole or the user? Would the British ACMD go on record that he would rather his son or daughter do ecstasy than have a couple of beers?

As for the relative numbers? That doesn't really matter. Enough people use MDMA to get a very good sample. The British Crime Survey (self reported to a questioner in your own home) consistently shows over half a million people having used it in the past year.

Sure it does. Because often the "harm" they talk about in the articles I've seen over the years is harm to society as a whole. Clearly, smoking causes more harm to society as a whole than heroin, due to all the cancers and other diseases it can cause. But, would I rather my son or daughter try a cigarette or inject heroin? I'd go with the cigarette.

[Audley Strange]

CES, that's just because of the negative propaganda against heroin and it's users. Could you imagine if EVERY single person on television who drank alcohol was portrayed as a somewhat dangerous and pitiful outsider living in a dilapidated hole filled with empty bottles and wasted filthy humans? Could you imagine if EVERY news article about alcohol was about some guy who drank himself to death or kicked his cat out the window or got drunk and set fire to his children? Meanwhile heroin users were always portrayed as witty and dashing, Formula One winners threw a silver platter of cocaine over each other. James Bond seduces women with some fine crack, crystal, not powered!

[Coito ergo sum]

CES, that's just because of the negative propaganda against heroin and it's users. Could you imagine if EVERY single person on television who drank alcohol was portrayed as a somewhat dangerous and pitiful outsider living in a dilapidated hole filled with empty bottles and wasted filthy humans? Could you imagine if EVERY news article about alcohol was about some guy who drank himself to death or kicked his cat out the window or got drunk and set fire to his children? Meanwhile heroin users were always portrayed as witty and dashing, Formula One winners threw a silver platter of cocaine over each other. James Bond seduces women with some fine crack, crystal, not powered!

My view that a cigarette is less dangerous to the user than heroin is not based on that propaganda.

And, yours is a straw man anyway - because certainly cigarette smokers are demonized as much as anyone, and drinkers are not "always" portrayed as witty and dashing.

Crack, clearly, is more dangerous to the user than alcohol or cigarettes. It's not even close.

[Pappa]

My view that a cigarette is less dangerous to the user than heroin is not based on that propaganda.

Are you sure? I'm not and would never suggest that becoming a heroin addict is a good idea, but if a user was given access to medical grade heroin, they could continue taking it their whole life with no significant negative effects on their health.