Free to Be Me Childrearing

[charlou]

My son wore a dress for a time. I let him. I have pictures I get to use to blackmail him with now.

So did one of mine. I'd never even consider using it against him or to manipulate him.


I like what these people are trying to do and why ... all the best to them.

“When faced with inevitable judgment by others, which child stands tall (and sticks up for others) — the one facing teasing despite desperately trying to fit in, or the one with a strong sense of self and at least two 'go-to' adults who love them unconditionally? Well, I guess you know which one we choose.”

[Coito ergo sum]

I was thinking the same thing when I read that "Jazz" liked to paint his fingernails, wear an earring, and wear braids in his hair, and his favorite color is pink. I'm sure that happened all on its own in a completely neutral atmosphere....

Eek, I'm thinking like you... whatever next?!

It happens. I get more lovable over time, too.

[CP]

I am of the opinion that boys and girls are generally born with certain differences. I think that it is apparent behaviorally with toy choices, how boys and girls play together, and the like. There is no such thing as genderless.

I have to disagree. There's no reason to assume inherent gender dimorphism in children. Children's toy choices and play patterns are greatly influenced by the people and media around them. Girls will play with mechanical toys if you add glitter, boys will play with My Little Pony if you paint them black. Many people who claim to raise their children genderless don't; they get gender preconceptions from television, books, other children and other adults. Studies show that children pick up much better on an adult's disapproving body language than encouraging words. Some parents even claim to be raising their children genderless, and then try to talk them into using toys made for their gender and out of the other gender's toys! That's not even pretending to be genderless! Adults will also play with and speak with infants differently based on gender, so it starts very young.

I see no problem with raising a kid genderless so long as they don't try to force it when the child insists they want their gender recognised, which tends to happen quite young.

[.Morticia.]

The welfare of the child is paramount.

How will the poor kid get along on a day to day basis. And I doubt this is the only wacko thing the parents are doing.

and an interesting read,

http://www.amazon.com/Delusions-Gender- ... =8-1-fkmr0

[devogue]

Dickheads.

[Coito ergo sum]

I am of the opinion that boys and girls are generally born with certain differences. I think that it is apparent behaviorally with toy choices, how boys and girls play together, and the like. There is no such thing as genderless.

I have to disagree. There's no reason to assume inherent gender dimorphism in children. Children's toy choices and play patterns are greatly influenced by the people and media around them. Girls will play with mechanical toys if you add glitter, boys will play with My Little Pony if you paint them black. Many people who claim to raise their children genderless don't; they get gender preconceptions from television, books, other children and other adults. Studies show that children pick up much better on an adult's disapproving body language than encouraging words. Some parents even claim to be raising their children genderless, and then try to talk them into using toys made for their gender and out of the other gender's toys! That's not even pretending to be genderless! Adults will also play with and speak with infants differently based on gender, so it starts very young.

I see no problem with raising a kid genderless so long as they don't try to force it when the child insists they want their gender recognised, which tends to happen quite young.

I don't think I assumed it. I and others believe we observe it.

[Thinking Aloud]

The only thing that struck a chord in all that was “When the baby comes out, even the people who love you the most and know you so intimately, the first question they ask is, ‘Is it a girl or a boy?’”

And the reason it resonated was that when Offspring #2 popped into my hands, I didn't give its gender a moment's thought. It must have been five or ten minutes later, when the midwife had arrived and was writing things down that I realised I had no idea whether the bundle I was holding was male or female. It just didn't matter!

As it happens, neither I nor Mrs TA were ever "pink", but Offspring #2, without any prompting from us or even any pink things around her, started to show a preference as soon as she was able.

[Pappa]

I am of the opinion that boys and girls are generally born with certain differences. I think that it is apparent behaviorally with toy choices, how boys and girls play together, and the like. There is no such thing as genderless.

I have to disagree. There's no reason to assume inherent gender dimorphism in children. Children's toy choices and play patterns are greatly influenced by the people and media around them. Girls will play with mechanical toys if you add glitter, boys will play with My Little Pony if you paint them black. Many people who claim to raise their children genderless don't; they get gender preconceptions from television, books, other children and other adults. Studies show that children pick up much better on an adult's disapproving body language than encouraging words. Some parents even claim to be raising their children genderless, and then try to talk them into using toys made for their gender and out of the other gender's toys! That's not even pretending to be genderless! Adults will also play with and speak with infants differently based on gender, so it starts very young.

I see no problem with raising a kid genderless so long as they don't try to force it when the child insists they want their gender recognised, which tends to happen quite young.

I don't think I assumed it. I and others believe we observe it.

I agree with CP on this. A huge amount of unconscious conditioning goes on from birth onwards. People treat boys and girls completely differently from day one. While there are obviously genetic differences between the sexes, I'm sure the majority of differences between the behaviour of boys and girls is conditioned.

[Coito ergo sum]

I don't think I assumed it. I and others believe we observe it.

I agree with CP on this. A huge amount of unconscious conditioning goes on from birth onwards. People treat boys and girls completely differently from day one. While there are obviously genetic differences between the sexes, I'm sure the majority of differences between the behaviour of boys and girls is conditioned.

Yes. Some behavior is conditioned, of course. But, there must be some differences that are innate. We have been strongly notified over the last few decades that sexuality is genetic when it comes to homosexuality or heterosexuality - we're all "born this way." If that's the case, and most women are heterosexual, and most men heterosexual, then plainly there is one hugely dramatic difference between men and women, generally speaking (although obviously some minority percentage of each are born homosexual). It's not too far of a stretch to suppose that men and women's brains are different in other ways too.

[laklak]

Dickheads.

Now, I think it's a little early to start imposing roles on it, don't you?

[Svartalf]

I suspect that people who would go to such extreme lengths to be as neutral as possible might unconsciously overcompensate in encouraging the opposite gender.

Not to mention that they might have the IQ of the Palin family... I mean, when I read the names they gave their kids (not to mention their own, but hard to decide who gave those to them), I was reminded of a family where they can name boys track, trig or tripp, or where bristol is an okay name for a girl...

One of the few worse things I can think of is that guy who stated on the net (and never retracted it in the several years since) that his first born son would be named obi wan

[Pappa]

I don't think I assumed it. I and others believe we observe it.

I agree with CP on this. A huge amount of unconscious conditioning goes on from birth onwards. People treat boys and girls completely differently from day one. While there are obviously genetic differences between the sexes, I'm sure the majority of differences between the behaviour of boys and girls is conditioned.

Yes. Some behavior is conditioned, of course. But, there must be some differences that are innate. We have been strongly notified over the last few decades that sexuality is genetic when it comes to homosexuality or heterosexuality - we're all "born this way." If that's the case, and most women are heterosexual, and most men heterosexual, then plainly there is one hugely dramatic difference between men and women, generally speaking (although obviously some minority percentage of each are born homosexual). It's not too far of a stretch to suppose that men and women's brains are different in other ways too.

Not too long ago (less than 100 years), pink was considered a boys' colour. Boys were dressed in it. There hasn't been enough time for the "pink preference" of girls to be determined genetically, it's entirely conditioned.

[rachelbean]

In addition, there is a difference between sex and gender, and the lines are not as cut and dry as boy/girl. I'm not sure that I agree with how they are going about it (I think in order to be healthiest for the kids in this society there is nothing wrong with being sure about/clear about your sex and still allow quite a lot of freedom as far as gender roles), but I understand the ideas behind it. Of course if they were more self aware they would probably realize like any parent they are going to be projecting their expectations and conditioning them no matter what

[Coito ergo sum]

Not too long ago (less than 100 years), pink was considered a boys' colour. Boys were dressed in it. There hasn't been enough time for the "pink preference" of girls to be determined genetically, it's entirely conditioned.

Quite a lot of things are a result of conditioning/upbringing.

[Gallstones]

Speaking as a parent, I was never able to impose anything on my son. He had his own preferences and dislikes from day one. He didn't always voice them, but I recognize resistance when I see it.