Conitive therapy - is it woo?

[Animavore]

Is CBT something a person could teach themselves through a book i that person had an aversion to discussing their feelings with people?

[stripes4]

It's the very antithesis of woo. It's purely rational, taking apart your irrational fears and beliefs, breaking them down and teaching you to be more objective about your beliefs about yourself and the world. I found it immensely constructive and not a bit woo-like. Believe it or not, I once needed help with mental issues. I know, hard to believe

[Tero]

CBT was primarily developed through a merging of behavior therapy with cognitive therapy. While rooted in rather different theories, these two traditions found common ground in focusing on the "here and now", and on alleviating symptoms

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive- ... al_therapy

[Azathoth]

It's placebo but placebo is powerful

[stripes4]

It's placebo but placebo is powerful

I didn't find it to be placebo - more logic.

[Seth]

Is CBT something a person could teach themselves through a book i that person had an aversion to discussing their feelings with people?

To some extent, probably, if you're able. The difficulty in my case was in learning to recognize distorted thinking. While I was given reading material describing the patters of distorted thinking, it was very difficult to self-diagnose at first. Talking with a psychologist about one's thoughts and feelings give him the opportunity to view from outside the loop and identify the distorted thinking and help you to see what's going on. It takes a while to learn to see the patterns and having an outside observer to catch you when you fall into such a loop is extremely valuable. One might be able to reason one's way through, but the problem with distorted thinking is that it doesn't seem distorted at the time, it seems perfectly rational.

[Seth]

It's placebo but placebo is powerful

I didn't find it to be placebo - more logic.

It's not a placebo. It actually does, as Mr. Samsa points out, work because it changes behaviors (thought patterns).

[Ronja]

It's placebo but placebo is powerful

It's unlearning old habits of mind and learning new habits of mind - how would that be the same as placebo (something that has no objective effect)? Would you consider learning in general some kind of illusion?

[Svartalf]

Is psychotherapy as a whole woo? Something that only works if you believe it will?

I don't know... I had therapy with a guy for like 5 years, and when push came to shove and I sank into real depression again, all that woo peddling jewish SoB did was dunk me deeper and suck me out of more money that I really could not afford.

and some people swear by Psychoanalysis, while others shout that freud and lacan were frauds and that the thing has been thoroughly debunked.

[Atheist-Lite]

CBT is brain washing. It teaches you to be happy with your lot even if your lot is deserving smashing the therapists face to pulp.

[hadespussercats]

Well, there's some research (could cite, but no time to at the moment) that repetitive thoughts actually create stronger connections between the synapses in our brains involved in transmitting them-- i.e.- the more you think about certain things, or respond to thoughts in one particular way, the more your brain actually gets used to those patterns. This is a theory behind PTSD, and certain compulsive behaviors. Even depressive thoughts can become easier and easier to access with frequent use.

I picture this as being sort of like muscle memory, or training certain muscles to become stronger with repetitive exercises-- though that's a metaphorical image.

The idea behind CBT, as I understand it, is to try to retrain your brain to use different synaptic paths, to encourage different behaviors. Another metaphor- trading a rutted mental path for a new one, that might be harder to use in the beginning, but becomes easier to travel with use. I suppose it could be woo. I don't think it is.

But yes, I think if you are, as a patient, four-square resisting any attempt to teach your mind new tricks, CBT won't be effective for you.

[Tero]

Yuk! Talking about feelings. Give me the pills.

I didnt get to be an atheist to share feelings.

Add sarcastic smiley.

[Seth]

Is psychotherapy as a whole woo? Something that only works if you believe it will?

I don't know... I had therapy with a guy for like 5 years, and when push came to shove and I sank into real depression again, all that woo peddling jewish SoB did was dunk me deeper and suck me out of more money that I really could not afford.

and some people swear by Psychoanalysis, while others shout that freud and lacan were frauds and that the thing has been thoroughly debunked.

My guess is that you failed to properly apply the principles and techniques. That's all anyone can try to teach you, the actual application of the techniques is up to you.

[Hermit]

...the problem with distorted thinking is that it doesn't seem distorted at the time, it seems perfectly rational.

[charlou]

Well, there's some research (could cite, but no time to at the moment) that repetitive thoughts actually create stronger connections between the synapses in our brains involved in transmitting them-- i.e.- the more you think about certain things, or respond to thoughts in one particular way, the more your brain actually gets used to those patterns. This is a theory behind PTSD, and certain compulsive behaviors. Even depressive thoughts can become easier and easier to access with frequent use.

I picture this as being sort of like muscle memory, or training certain muscles to become stronger with repetitive exercises-- though that's a metaphorical image.

The idea behind CBT, as I understand it, is to try to retrain your brain to use different synaptic paths, to encourage different behaviors. Another metaphor- trading a rutted mental path for a new one, that might be harder to use in the beginning, but becomes easier to travel with use. I suppose it could be woo. I don't think it is.

But yes, I think if you are, as a patient, four-square resisting any attempt to teach your mind new tricks, CBT won't be effective for you.

This is how I view it too. I don't think of neuroscience as woo, and since our emotions are neurochemical responses to stimuli, and not somehow immaterial and separate from our brain, I think it's a valid field of study and practical application.

Is psychotherapy as a whole woo? Something that only works if you believe it will?

I don't know... I had therapy with a guy for like 5 years, and when push came to shove and I sank into real depression again, all that woo peddling jewish SoB did was dunk me deeper and suck me out of more money that I really could not afford.

and some people swear by Psychoanalysis, while others shout that freud and lacan were frauds and that the thing has been thoroughly debunked.

The problem with any psychological analysis and intervention, is that its an area rife with subjective traditional and stodgy textbook views about 'teh human condition' and what makes us tick, and personal egos intruding in a very sensitive area: mental health. Couple that with the fact that each individual's brain has developed under unique physical and cultural circumstances and therefore should not be dealt with in a 'production line' manner ... and, yeah, the mental health professional/client relationships are not always beneficial for the client.