What is feminism? PZ rape thread derail

[hadespussercats]

So, how is that different from what I'd posited, about sifww being anti- racism, not anti- feminism?

Erm.... It not only shows that the white middle class feminists don't care about racism but they are only using feminism to benefit themselves; feminism is an ideology that mostly supports the white middle class feminists to the detriment of other women. This exposes the lie that feminism is about equality for all women which was the whole point.

you are missing the main point, which is that these women of color who are writing SIFWW consider themselves feminists. Their beef is that feminism is not only for bourgeois white women- despite the fact that white women have generally controlled access to power within the movement

[hadespussercats]

I always thought the waves were

1. "Evil men! Give us the Vote!" "Sure!"
2. "Evil Men! Give us legal equality." "Sure!"
3. "Evil Men. Ummmm errr EVIL!!!" "What?" "Shut up and listen!"

Sure. It's always been a simple case of " ask and ye shall receive." And women are still angry? ungrateful bitches.

[Audley Strange]

Sure. It's always been a simple case of " ask and ye shall receive." And women are still angry? ungrateful bitches.

Indeed.

[hadespussercats]

wevs.

[pErvinalia]

fuck.

this free speech paradise is becoming a haven for offensive wankers. well, you get what you ask for.

[Audley Strange]

fuck.

this free speech paradise is becoming a haven for offensive wankers. well, you get what you ask for.

What's offended you this time?

[Cormac]

fuck.

this free speech paradise is becoming a haven for offensive wankers. well, you get what you ask for.

Ah well. Noone has the right to not be offended.

[pErvinalia]

fuck.

this free speech paradise is becoming a haven for offensive wankers. well, you get what you ask for.

What's offended you this time?

Stuff.

[Bella Fortuna]

fuck.

this free speech paradise is becoming a haven for offensive wankers. well, you get what you ask for.

Sounds like you want a free speech paradise only for people who agree with you.

[pErvinalia]

I don't want a free speech paradise at all. I think it is juvenile. But a lot of people here do, and then whinge when they get stuffed with offensive opinions. You get what you pay for.

[Cormac]

I don't want a free speech paradise at all. I think it is juvenile. But a lot of people here do, and then whinge when they get stuffed with offensive opinions. You get what you pay for.

There are a limited number of people on this site who complain about our free speech rule.

We might disagree sharply with an expressed opinion, but that is entirely consistent with the rule.

[Audley Strange]

wevs.

I was agreeing with the mischaracterisation, not the comment, I assume you did mean it sarcastically from that response.

I can certainly sympathise with it. After all the assumption is that being treated as an equal human being is something that should have been automatic, not something "generously" handed over. That in itself seems patronising. I can understand why one would be angry about that and I understand why the "ungrateful bitches" retort might seem like the sort of projection that those in power might have after handing over that which should have been automatic.

Beyond that though, beyond voting rights and legal equality, what is left but cultural critique? Now I am saying the women's movement is far from finished when it is clear that being treated as an human being with voting rights and legal equality are still not done. I'm behind that. When it comes to cultural critique, some of it seems reasonable, some of it seems nitpicking and some of it seems nuts. Sadly Third Wave Feminism in a lot of cases is little more than cultural critique from a very small group of women usually with wildly different opinions, until the word has become more associated with that and a lot of it does seem to me to ignore everyone else's plight at the expense of some middle-class overly entitled women whining about their lack of privilege.

[pErvinalia]

I don't want a free speech paradise at all. I think it is juvenile. But a lot of people here do, and then whinge when they get stuffed with offensive opinions. You get what you pay for.

There are a limited number of people on this site who complain about our free speech rule.

We might disagree sharply with an expressed opinion, but that is entirely consistent with the rule.

Wanting them banned is different from disagreeing with their opinion.

[Robert_S]

[quote="DaveDodo007"It is just an example of some feminists questioning other feminists about their claims of being for equality for all women.

I'm against feminism because it is an ideology and I'm against all ideologies because the lead to group think and cult like behaviour. I just pointed the above out to show all is not well at feminism HQ.[/quote]

Feminism isn't a single ideology.

Not all is well with atheism either.

"...some feminists questioning other feminists about their claims of being for equality for all women." So, what does that prove? That the feminist movement is showing signs of groupthink? OR would a lack of feminists criticizing and questioning each other be a sign of groupthink?

I'm sorry, but I'm not being disingenuous. I'll admit there are some man-haters in there. There are, like in just about every sufficiently large group of people, some real fucked up individuals. But you haven't made a convincing case that feminism is, on the whole, such a horrific thing.

[Cormac]

I don't want a free speech paradise at all. I think it is juvenile. But a lot of people here do, and then whinge when they get stuffed with offensive opinions. You get what you pay for.

There are a limited number of people on this site who complain about our free speech rule.

We might disagree sharply with an expressed opinion, but that is entirely consistent with the rule.

Wanting them banned is different from disagreeing with their opinion.

Very few people have ever called for someone to be banned for expressing an unpopular opinion.