Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

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hiyymer
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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by hiyymer » Tue Nov 30, 2010 4:52 am

Seraph wrote:
hiyymer wrote:Call him the greatest philosopher of all time. Seriously how great is that? Cardboard is more important.
Well, yes, true, but to be regarded as the greatest among philosophers is not too shabby.

I think Nietzsche is not particularly great at all. His appeal stems chiefly from his aphorisms. Pithy and short pronouncements appeal to people who are too stupid or lazy to engage in sustained trains of thought. That would be the majority of humankind, including the majority of humankind that professes to be interested in philosophy.
Boy there sure are a lot of them. I got bored after the second page. Seen better.

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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Robert_S » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:32 am

Sometimes I find him inspiring. Today I find him tiresome.
What I've found with a few discussions I've had lately is this self-satisfaction that people express with their proffessed open mindedness. In realty it ammounts to wilful ignorance and intellectual cowardice as they are choosing to not form any sort of opinion on a particular topic. Basically "I don't know and I'm not going to look at any evidence because I'm quite happy on this fence."
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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Hermit » Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:59 am

hiyymer wrote:
Seraph wrote:
hiyymer wrote:Call him the greatest philosopher of all time. Seriously how great is that? Cardboard is more important.
Well, yes, true, but to be regarded as the greatest among philosophers is not too shabby.

I think Nietzsche is not particularly great at all. His appeal stems chiefly from his aphorisms. Pithy and short pronouncements appeal to people who are too stupid or lazy to engage in sustained trains of thought. That would be the majority of humankind, including the majority of humankind that professes to be interested in philosophy.
Boy there sure are a lot of them. I got bored after the second page. Seen better.

http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/autho ... che_3.html
Thanks for the link. This one from the page you provided the link to of Fred's one-liners is rather ironic in relation to what I was saying: mankind would rather see gestures than listen to reasons.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Animavore » Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:35 am

Seraph wrote:
hiyymer wrote:Call him the greatest philosopher of all time. Seriously how great is that? Cardboard is more important.
Well, yes, true, but to be regarded as the greatest among philosophers is not too shabby.

I think Nietzsche is not particularly great at all. His appeal stems chiefly from his aphorisms. Pithy and short pronouncements appeal to people who are too stupid or lazy to engage in sustained trains of thought. That would be the majority of humankind, including the majority of humankind that professes to be interested in philosophy.
for fucking real!?
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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Hermit » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:48 am

Ayup. Just like Dancing with the Stars gets ten times better ratings than Four Corners in Australia. I can't think of a reason why things would be radically different in your neck of the woods.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Animavore » Tue Nov 30, 2010 11:52 am

:scratch: I don't have a clue what you're talking about and i'm still trying to figure out if the earlier comment is a blatant, personal attack!
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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Hermit » Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:08 am

Animavore wrote::scratch: I don't have a clue what you're talking about and i'm still trying to figure out if the earlier comment is a blatant, personal attack!
What is so difficult to understand with the claim that "Nietzsche's appeal stems chiefly from his aphorisms. Pithy and short pronouncements appeal to people who are too stupid or lazy to engage in sustained trains of thought. That would be the majority of humankind, including the majority of humankind that professes to be interested in philosophy."?

As for your perception of my comment as a blatant personal attack, none was intended, and I would like you to explain to me what makes you think it of it as one. To me the majority of humankind is too stupid or lazy to engage in sustained trains of thought, and I supported that opinion with the fact that in Australia, for instance, Dancing with the Stars gets ten times better ratings than Four Corners. Similarly, The Daily Telegraph, a newspaper in Sydney pitched at people who are mainly interested in sports results, sex scandals and like piffle, outsells The Sydney Morning Herald by a similar magnitude. Surely, you can think of similar examples, like say, by how much Justin Bieber CDs outsold recordings of JS Bach this year.

I was not implying that all people who regard Nietzsche are too stupid or lazy to engage in sustained trains of thought, and even less so that stupidity is genetic. In my experience, it just happens to be the case that the social strata that simply don't have the time to study things at length and systematically, because most of their waking hours are taken up with making ends meet, are more likely to think of Nietzsche as the bees knees of philosophical thinking, than those who have the luxury of a materially adequate existence to focus their attention on things beyond how the money to buy replacements for the shoes that John and Jane have outgrown three weeks ago can be procured.

Aphorisms, for which Nietzsche had considerable skills, can be very catchy, and don't usually require a systematic world view to be appreciated. That's why KR Popper's "We must make our mistakes as quickly as we can" is hardly known or understood at all. Without knowing what he says about epistemology, it just sounds like a silly, probably mistaken, platitude. That is why D Hume's "It is not reason which is the guide of life, but custom." is not comprehensible without knowing what he said about inductivism, and usually disagreed with by the few people who actually heard it.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by charlou » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:13 am

Seraph wrote:As for your perception of my comment as a blatant personal attack, none was intended, and I would like you to explain to me what makes you think it of it as one. To me the majority of humankind is too stupid or lazy to engage in sustained trains of thought, and I supported that opinion with the fact that in Australia, for instance, Dancing with the Stars gets ten times better ratings than Four Corners. Similarly, The Daily Telegraph, a newspaper in Sydney pitched at people who are mainly interested in sports results, sex scandals and like piffle, outsells The Sydney Morning Herald by a similar magnitude. Surely, you can think of similar examples, like say, by how much Justin Bieber CDs outsold recordings of JS Bach this year.
The use of "stupid and lazy" to describe why you think people can't or won't engage in sustained trains of thought ... That you describe inability to act, for whatever reason, as lack of engagement in sustained trains of thought ... That you seem to think that your idea of what is valuable in what and how people think about the various examples you gave is superior ... I dunno .. it can be taken personally, I think ... The way it's expressed can certainly come across as arrogant and elitist.
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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Trolldor » Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:18 am

There's a reason the IQ scale reads 'above average intelligence'.
There's a reason being above average intelligence makes you less inclined to be religious, more inclined to do well financially, have stabler relationships, perform better academically, have greater empathy, have a liberal mindset and overall be better at life. For the most part, the degree of your success correlates directly with how far 'above average intelligence' you are.
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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by charlou » Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:16 pm

The Mad Hatter wrote: There's a reason being above average intelligence makes you less inclined to be religious, more inclined to do well financially, have stabler relationships, perform better academically, have greater empathy, have a liberal mindset and overall be better at life. For the most part, the degree of your success correlates directly with how far 'above average intelligence' you are.
Ummmm ... If you're serious cite evidence or kindly stfu. :tea:
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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Hermit » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:16 pm

Charlou wrote:The use of "stupid and lazy" to describe why you think people can't or won't engage in sustained trains of thought ... That you describe inability to act, for whatever reason, as lack of engagement in sustained trains of thought ... That you seem to think that your idea of what is valuable in what and how people think about the various examples you gave is superior ... I dunno .. it can be taken personally, I think ... The way it's expressed can certainly come across as arrogant and elitist.
Now that I think of it, yes, you are right, and in a way, so was Animavore for feeling offended. Stupid and lazy are not the words appropriate to what I was trying to convey. In conjunction with my previous post I hope to have clarified what I really meant to say, even though I have repeated the now retracted "stupid and lazy" portion of it.

Moving right along: Nietzsche is way overrated.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Hermit » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:27 pm

The Mad Hatter wrote:There's a reason the IQ scale reads 'above average intelligence'.
There's a reason being above average intelligence makes you less inclined to be religious, more inclined to do well financially, have stabler relationships, perform better academically, have greater empathy, have a liberal mindset and overall be better at life. For the most part, the degree of your success correlates directly with how far 'above average intelligence' you are.
What might that reason be? Is it that above average intelligence actually causes you to be less inclined to be religious, more inclined to do well financially, have stabler relationships, perform better academically, have greater empathy, have a liberal mindset and overall be better at life? Or could it be that a materially comfortable existence does that, and that perceived above average intelligence is just one of the concomitants of bourgeois existence afforded to those of us who are lucky enough to live in affluent, democratic nations?
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by charlou » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:48 pm

Seraph wrote:Moving right along: Nietzsche is way overrated.
Aren't all philosophers .. kinda by definition .. if you know what I mean?
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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Hermit » Wed Dec 01, 2010 1:52 pm

Charlou wrote:
Seraph wrote:Moving right along: Nietzsche is way overrated.
Aren't all philosophers .. kinda by definition .. if you know what I mean?
Yes, in a way. Ironically, it was my favourite philosopher who agreed with that: Generally speaking, the errors in religion are dangerous; those in philosophy only ridiculous. - David Hume

He only had certain types of philosophy in mind, though, and only in specific contexts.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

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Re: Nietzsche - the most important philosopher - discuss

Post by Trolldor » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:45 pm

Seraph wrote:
The Mad Hatter wrote:There's a reason the IQ scale reads 'above average intelligence'.
There's a reason being above average intelligence makes you less inclined to be religious, more inclined to do well financially, have stabler relationships, perform better academically, have greater empathy, have a liberal mindset and overall be better at life. For the most part, the degree of your success correlates directly with how far 'above average intelligence' you are.
What might that reason be? Is it that above average intelligence actually causes you to be less inclined to be religious, more inclined to do well financially, have stabler relationships, perform better academically, have greater empathy, have a liberal mindset and overall be better at life? Or could it be that a materially comfortable existence does that, and that perceived above average intelligence is just one of the concomitants of bourgeois existence afforded to those of us who are lucky enough to live in affluent, democratic nations?
No.
"The fact is that far more crime and child abuse has been committed by zealots in the name of God, Jesus and Mohammed than has ever been committed in the name of Satan. Many people don't like that statement but few can argue with it."

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