Shame

[mistermack]

Remorse is feeling sorry for past actions. Shame is feeling guilty for what you are doing at the time. I see them as distinct. You can lack remorse until given added facts that make your action seem more callous than it seemed to you at the time. Shame is more immediate.

Although the two are closely linked and BOTH are subject to societal conditioning.

I'm not sure I'm totally with you there. In my head, I feel remorse AND shame for some things that I've done. Remorse is wishing I hadn't done it, and it's aligned to causing harm to others in my mind.
Shame can be just something that wasn't necessarily harmful to others. Just something that lowered your own self-esteem, or that you feel made others hold you in less esteem.

I'm too ashamed to quote real examples. But made-up ones would be something like :
Remorse might be for getting drunk, and seriously hurting someone in a fight.

Shame would be for getting drunk, and waving my dick about, with everyone laughing at me, and believing that I was the life and soul of the party.

Maybe I've got the wrong meanings in my head, but that's how I see it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Okay, everybody who's posted their genitalia to this forum cannot post on shame here.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Okay, everybody who's posted their genitalia to this forum cannot post on shame here.

Are you implying that we should be ashamed of it? interesting...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Okay, everybody who's posted their genitalia to this forum cannot post on shame here.

Are you implying that we should be ashamed of it? interesting...

No, I'm saying you have no shame.

[mistermack]

I wouldn't have the balls to do that anyway.

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Okay, everybody who's posted their genitalia to this forum cannot post on shame here.

Are you implying that we should be ashamed of it? interesting...

No, I'm saying you have no shame.

But, unless you are claiming that showing ones genitals is something for which one should feel shame, the act implies nothing of the sort.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Okay, everybody who's posted their genitalia to this forum cannot post on shame here.

Are you implying that we should be ashamed of it? interesting...

No, I'm saying you have no shame.

But, unless you are claiming that showing ones genitals is something for which one should feel shame, the act implies nothing of the sort.

No, it implies you have no shame and therefore can't comment on it intelligently. (Have fun with that last word.)

[floppit]

Zilla - you do seem to be defining shame as something to do with nakedness, bodies, sex? I could waggle me luv muffin to the entire planet and still feel my chip shop shame!

[Xamonas Chegwé]

Okay, everybody who's posted their genitalia to this forum cannot post on shame here.

Are you implying that we should be ashamed of it? interesting...

No, I'm saying you have no shame.

But, unless you are claiming that showing ones genitals is something for which one should feel shame, the act implies nothing of the sort.

No, it implies you have no shame and therefore can't comment on it intelligently. (Have fun with that last word.)

So we shouldn't be ashamed of showing our genitalia to anyone. But showing our genitalia means that we have no shame. I certainly feel no shame in exposing my naked body but I have shame about other things. Things that I am, understandably, too ashamed to repeat here!

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Zilla - you do seem to be defining shame as something to do with nakedness, bodies, sex? I could waggle me luv muffin to the entire planet and still feel my chip shop shame!

It was largely a joke, my dear. But as shame is an implant, anything can generate it, depending on the agenda of the person doing the implanting. For instance, Ens. Sakimaki, the first Japanese POW in US custody in WWII, had to be kept on suicide watch for years because he was ashamed of being a survivor and a captive. That shame is counter to all good sense, but there it was, a product of decades of relentless propaganda in Japan.

[Robert_S]

Zilla - you do seem to be defining shame as something to do with nakedness, bodies, sex? I could waggle me luv muffin to the entire planet and still feel my chip shop shame!

Socioeconomic shame can be a motherfucker, but is just as much learned as bodily shame.

Still, I look forward to the testing of floppit's hypothesis...

[Gawdzilla Sama]

So we shouldn't be ashamed of showing our genitalia to anyone. But showing our genitalia means that we have no shame. I certainly feel no shame in exposing my naked body but I have shame about other things. Things that I am, understandably, too ashamed to repeat here!

The question should be why are you ashamed of those things. Because someone told you to be, directly or indirectly? Or because you're sorry you did them, which is better called being remorseful. BTW, being remorseful over things you shouldn't be is just as bad as being ashamed that you are a mammal and have the equipment to prove it.

[mistermack]

When I wrote "Shame would be for getting drunk, and waving my dick about, with everyone laughing at me, and me believing that I was the life and soul of the party."

It wouldn't be that I was ashamed of showing my dick, but ashamed that I thought that I was being witty and entertaining, when I was really just pissed and pathetic.

The shame comes in the next day, because you've seen others do similar things, and you know what a prat you thought they were at the time.

But personally I wouldn't have to worry, because I doubt if anybody would notice it.

[Gawdzilla Sama]

It's no big thing.

[hadespussercats]

I have a lot of social anxiety, which often amounts to immense amounts of shame, for no good reason. Oddly, I often feel fine in the moment, but experience a lot of shame in my inevitable post-game analysis. I can even feel shame all anew for something stupid I said fifteen years ago-- and it can hit me out of nowhere.

Daniel Kahneman has done some interesting work in which he compares how people describe their general satisfaction with life in the past, versus asking them how they feel "right now". He found that, for the same period of time, the way the "historical self" rates its happiness is different from the moment-to-moment rating of happiness. (I believe biasing the historical self towards the positive, but don't quote me on that. The work is mentioned in Sam Harris' book, "The Moral Landscape".)

My life has been typified by peaks and valleys, emotion-wise. I'd be hard-pressed to label my past with a single emotional modifier.