Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by Forty Two » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:21 pm

Deflection. Diversion.

Yawn.
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:21 pm

My answer in that link is perfectly clear. If you can't understand it, I'd suggest some more remedial English lessons.
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by Forty Two » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:26 pm

And, there you go, descending back into personal attack mode. Fuck off.
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by Scot Dutchy » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:52 pm

Just how is capitalism not greed? The ideal state for capitalism is that of monopoly. Where one company or person has control of the market. The pure greed of being able to dictate market prices.
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by JimC » Mon Apr 16, 2018 10:31 pm

Greed in a very general sense of the word is the basis for much human motivation, and I agree that it underpins the "profit maximisation" basis of capitalism, quite often at the expense of other social goods such as protection of the environment.

I suspect that 42 is basing his objection on a narrow definition of greed, one which involves going to excess; the top end of the normal curve of the greed emotion. This sort of greed is characterised by a ruthless "ends justifying the means" philosophy, and is usually identified by the reaction of disgust it provokes in most other humans. Most practicing capitalists would not necessarily exhibit this level of personal greed, but greed in general still underpins their actions.
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by Sean Hayden » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:29 pm

I disagree. I don't see the vagueness in greed that you do. Even admitting some vagueness we would want to do better than to call everything greedy to a degree...
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by pErvinalia » Mon Apr 16, 2018 11:46 pm

Forty Two wrote:And, there you go, descending back into personal attack mode. Fuck off.
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by JimC » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:00 am

Sean Hayden wrote:I disagree. I don't see the vagueness in greed that you do. Even admitting some vagueness we would want to do better than to call everything greedy to a degree...
So, given that, do you see greed as something inherent to capitalism, or, as 42 suggests, it is purely a matter of economics and self interest?

Self interest is a fairly universal characteristic of humans. Its intensity, I would suggest, would probably follow a bell curve, with the extremely selfish end of the spectrum often called greed, and treated with opprobrium. My take is that practicing capitalists are generally on the side at least heading towards what could be fairly called greed, though it's only the Gordon Geckos of this world that permanently occupy the extreme tail.

The problematic issues with self interest, often sliding into greed, as a motivation for such a major chunk of human activity as economic activity are two fold, IMO.

Firstly, it typically involves squeezing the workforce as part of the drive to maximise profits, and frequently fails the test of fairness and justice.

Secondly, its actions are blind to unintended consequences, such as environmental degradation and future problems; it has no real connection to the concert of the greater good.

Opposed to the negatives is that the keen edge of self-interested motives, in a competitive environment, is a great promoter of innovation.
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by pErvinalia » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:21 am

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"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
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"You know you blokes didn't criticize Obama. You're lying. - Forty Two. Umm - http://rationalia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=42144

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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by JimC » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:26 am

That example comes from the negative side of the ledger, frantically trying to maximise profits, with no forethought (even self-interested) that such actions usually come unstuck in the long term.

But you would be hard-pressed to argue that the free-enterprise system is not a generator of technological innovation and efficiency increases; saying that does not do away with the negatives I outlined...
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by Sean Hayden » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:34 am

So, given that, do you see greed as something inherent to capitalism, or, as 42 suggests, it is purely a matter of economics and self interest?
It makes more sense to me to talk about people being greedy. I think I can understand the usefulness of your description, but I'm sure it doesn't describe reality. :hehe:

Lately my problem with capitalism, and the reason I said the government should take over Amazon, is the vast amount of labor and other resources that get consumed making a few people very rich. From a certain vantage point it looks like all the wealth in the country is being channeled to just a few. But it's a massive undertaking to pull that apart and make sense of it. :dunno:
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by JimC » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:44 am

Unchecked capitalism certainly, and inevitably, heads towards a massive inequality of wealth, which is self maintaining in political systems like the US, because extreme wealth generates the power to unfairly influence government decision-making.
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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by Hermit » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:19 am

Forty Two wrote:There is nothing "excessive or rapacious" in desire for pecuniary gain resulting from employment of capital in a transaction.
When someone who, with the sweat of his brow saves enough money to put down as a deposit for a home, then spends years paying it off and eventually sells it at a presumably much higher market value when the children have flown the coop and it is time to downsize, that person is making a profit - from his/her own labour. No greed involved because there is no exploitation involved. We're not talking about that.

What we're talking about is when Apple Corp creams off 20 to 25% of the value its workers create and directs it into the pockets of its shareholders, which, in the words of one Apple executive "requires factories that seem harsh by American standards", profit meets greed.

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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by laklak » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:43 am

And nobody cares. They line up to buy the latest and greatest iShit. Half the ones in line are probably Bernie Bro vegans.

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Re: Why Isn't Communism Viewed As Negatively as Nazism?

Post by Sean Hayden » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:50 am

:clap:
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