The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post Reply
User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Hermit » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:40 am

Coito ergo sum wrote:
RiverF wrote:People would have to become far less wasteful .. and it would be enforced. Why not just enforce far less wastefulness here? Is our behaviour .. our gluttony, greed and apathy .. such that it is necessary to provide an extreme alternative in order to catalyse change? And would that really change such behaviour?
I would say that it would be great to curb wastefulness here, but that doesn't solve the overall problem, which is lots of eggs, one basket.
To get to the nearest basket that is even remotely suitable for terraforming takes six months to get to. It's only 25 lightminutes away. The next closest planet that might be suitable for terraforming - should one be discovered there - would orbit Alpha Proxima, the nearest star to our sun. The journey would span 4.25 lightyears and take something like 25,000 years if we travelled at the speed the two Voyager craft are moving at now. It's a basket too far.
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

Seth
GrandMaster Zen Troll
Posts: 22077
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:02 am
Contact:

Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Seth » Sun Aug 04, 2013 5:42 am

rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:You are essentially saying that socialists are selfish. That's patently ridiculous.
No, it's absolutely true. Selfishness is the key trait of socialists. "You have more than I do and that's not fair so I want somebody to come along and take what you have and give it to me."

Quintessential socialism.
Socialism is about sharing. It's in the fucking name.
The name is the disguise. "Sharing" is something one does voluntarily with others. "Stealing" is what "socialists" do to get what they want. You're not allowed not to "share" under socialism so it's not "sharing" its theft and slavery.

It's precisely like the big bully on the playground "sharing" your lunch money by threatening to pound you if you don't fork over.

"Sharing" my ass.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

User avatar
Hermit
Posts: 25806
Joined: Thu Feb 26, 2009 12:44 am
About me: Cantankerous grump
Location: Ignore lithpt
Contact:

Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Hermit » Sun Aug 04, 2013 6:18 am

Who was the fuckwit that seeded the word "socialism" in this thread? Could you not foresee that, aided by his skillz wid da Search Tool The Broken Record will duly arrive and turn any topic into a discussion about Teh Ebils Of Communism? :irate:
I am, somehow, less interested in the weight and convolutions of Einstein’s brain than in the near certainty that people of equal talent have lived and died in cotton fields and sweatshops. - Stephen J. Gould

Seth
GrandMaster Zen Troll
Posts: 22077
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 1:02 am
Contact:

Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Seth » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:02 am

Hermit wrote:Who was the fuckwit that seeded the word "socialism" in this thread? Could you not foresee that, aided by his skillz wid da Search Tool The Broken Record will duly arrive and turn any topic into a discussion about Teh Ebils Of Communism? :irate:
Clinton Huxley, aided and abetted by rEv.

Oh, and it takes two to tango Sparky.
"Seth is Grandmaster Zen Troll who trains his victims to troll themselves every time they think of him" Robert_S

"All that is required for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

"Those who support denying anyone the right to keep and bear arms for personal defense are fully complicit in every crime that might have been prevented had the victim been effectively armed." Seth

© 2013/2014/2015/2016 Seth, all rights reserved. No reuse, republication, duplication, or derivative work is authorized.

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60739
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:45 am

Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:
Seth wrote:
rEvolutionist wrote:You are essentially saying that socialists are selfish. That's patently ridiculous.
No, it's absolutely true. Selfishness is the key trait of socialists. "You have more than I do and that's not fair so I want somebody to come along and take what you have and give it to me."

Quintessential socialism.
Socialism is about sharing. It's in the fucking name.
The name is the disguise.
That's right, Seth. Us MARXIZTS are coming for you!!1 Muhaahahaha!
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

User avatar
pErvinalia
On the good stuff
Posts: 60739
Joined: Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:08 pm
About me: Spelling 'were' 'where'
Location: dystopia
Contact:

Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by pErvinalia » Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:47 am

Hermit wrote:Who was the fuckwit that seeded the word "socialism" in this thread? Could you not foresee that, aided by his skillz wid da Search Tool The Broken Record will duly arrive and turn any topic into a discussion about Teh Ebils Of Communism? :irate:
We need to keep Seth guessing as to whether it is a hidden conspiracy to Marxise him, or whether it is an open one. Just when Seth thinks he has us Marxizts worked out, we change the rules a bit... :twisted:
Sent from my penis using wankertalk.
"The Western world is fucking awesome because of mostly white men" - DaveDodo007.
"Socialized medicine is just exactly as morally defensible as gassing and cooking Jews" - Seth. Yes, he really did say that..
"Seth you are a boon to this community" - Cunt.
"I am seriously thinking of going on a spree killing" - Svartalf.

Coito ergo sum
Posts: 32040
Joined: Wed Feb 24, 2010 2:03 pm
Contact:

Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Coito ergo sum » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:18 pm

Hermit wrote:
Coito ergo sum wrote:
RiverF wrote:People would have to become far less wasteful .. and it would be enforced. Why not just enforce far less wastefulness here? Is our behaviour .. our gluttony, greed and apathy .. such that it is necessary to provide an extreme alternative in order to catalyse change? And would that really change such behaviour?
I would say that it would be great to curb wastefulness here, but that doesn't solve the overall problem, which is lots of eggs, one basket.
To get to the nearest basket that is even remotely suitable for terraforming takes six months to get to. It's only 25 lightminutes away. The next closest planet that might be suitable for terraforming - should one be discovered there - would orbit Alpha Proxima, the nearest star to our sun. The journey would span 4.25 lightyears and take something like 25,000 years if we travelled at the speed the two Voyager craft are moving at now. It's a basket too far.
There is no other option. If it is acknowledged that one basket is too few, then we need other baskets.

If it is impossible, then we are doomed earlier than we might otherwise be, as a species, if we had more baskets. If it is not impossible, it's not impossible. However, without trying, we just assume it is not possible and nothing gets done.

User avatar
Clinton Huxley
19th century monkeybitch.
Posts: 23739
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:34 pm
Contact:

Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Clinton Huxley » Mon Aug 05, 2013 1:28 pm

Sort out an asteroid shield, get the Earth's population down to about a billion and we are good for a bit. Any "second basket" would need the support of Basket One for quite some time, so lets get weaving fixing the holes.
"I grow old … I grow old …
I shall wear the bottoms of my trousers rolled"

AND MERRY XMAS TO ONE AND All!

Imagehttp://25kv.co.uk/date_counter.php?date ... 20counting!!![/img-sig]

User avatar
Blind groper
Posts: 3997
Joined: Sun Mar 25, 2012 3:10 am
About me: From New Zealand
Contact:

Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Blind groper » Sat Aug 10, 2013 2:07 am

Hermit wrote:The next closest planet that might be suitable for terraforming - should one be discovered there - would orbit Alpha Proxima, the nearest star to our sun. The journey would span 4.25 lightyears and take something like 25,000 years if we travelled at the speed the two Voyager craft are moving at now. It's a basket too far.
Hate to tell you this, Hermit, but that is lousy logic. It works on the basic assumption that nothing will change, and we will never get any better at space travel. I think we can all see that assumption as being crappy.

If we want to send a probe to Proxima Centauri, or to the systems of Alpha Centauri A or Alpha Centauri B, we need a travel speed of about 0.1 c (one tenth of light speed). Allowing 10 years to accelerate and another 10 to decelerate, that means a total travel time of 55 years, which becomes feasible bearing in mind the people of the future will live a hell of a lot longer than we do.

Technology tends to grow by exponents. That means each technology has a specific doubling time. With computers, it is two years to double transisters per unit area without increasing cost. If we assume ion drive technology doubles in terms of achievable speed each 20 years, then it will take just over 300 years before humans can send a probe at 0.1 c.

User avatar
Warren Dew
Posts: 3781
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 1:41 pm
Location: Somerville, MA, USA
Contact:

Re: The Ethics of Space Tourism?

Post by Warren Dew » Tue Aug 13, 2013 5:18 am

Scrumple wrote:Is it ethical to waste precious resources for a hour of weightlessness and pollute the atmosphere? Would you? What is your justification of the risk? Would it change after the first big accident? :coffee:
The environmentalist in me says it's pretty questionable. That said, the commercial offerings are far more carbon efficient than the old governmental programs, even if they're doing it only for reasons of cost.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests