Book and movie... before or after?

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Re: Book and movie... before or after?

Post by Svartalf » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:04 pm

An Irish guy hate fairy stuff? are you unpatriotic or just homophobic?
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Re: Bok and movie... before or after?

Post by Pappa » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:04 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Bok first, always.
:dis:

Leaving aside the "book is always better" bit. If you watch the film first, your image of the story will always be tainted by the visual aspects of the film. If you read the book first, you get the image your minds creates from the words. Then later, you get the image the director of the film wanted to portray. You can appreciate both. That's spoiled if you watch the film first.
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Re: Book and movie... before or after?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:10 pm

Svartalf wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Svartalf wrote:My general attitude also, except it usually leads me to want and impale a lot of movie makers, their script writers and their producers (well, the producers bear the nastiest responsibility, since they are often the ones responsible for the rest of the crew doing horrors to the material)
Wrong. You're talking two different media, incompatible, and so unable to translate successfully back and forth. You couldn't put LOTR on the screen word-for-word, people would leave before they got to Buckleberry Ferry.

Movies are stories about the world created in the books. That's what they do. Books are movies with all the time in the world to paint a picture.
I'm talking dragging authors' good names into movies that are not actually related to the work they purport to carry, or making useless, pointless changes to the script from the original... possibly even ones that don't make sense and stretch suspension of disbelief beyond breaking.

Give a man credit for being able to appreciate when a change is actually necessary to accomodate the new medium and its necessities. (like forgetting all about the Old Forest and Tom Bombadil and killing Saruman early)
Anybody who expects a movie to be faithful to a book is in for a great disappointment.
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Re: Book and movie... before or after?

Post by amused » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:12 pm

Both.

I saw The Shining before reading the book. The movie is much better, IMO. I despise the LoTR movies and won't be seeing The Hobbit at all because it's a great book and I want to keep my own version in place in my mind's eye.

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Re: Book and movie... before or after?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:17 pm

amused wrote:Both.

I saw The Shining before reading the book. The movie is much better, IMO. I despise the LoTR movies and won't be seeing The Hobbit at all because it's a great book and I want to keep my own version in place in my mind's eye.
I read the LOTR in 1970, and had the images in my mind for decades before Jackson broke in and took them, without even crediting me. :cranky:
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Re: Book and movie... before or after?

Post by Svartalf » Fri Oct 26, 2012 9:18 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Svartalf wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
Svartalf wrote:My general attitude also, except it usually leads me to want and impale a lot of movie makers, their script writers and their producers (well, the producers bear the nastiest responsibility, since they are often the ones responsible for the rest of the crew doing horrors to the material)
Wrong. You're talking two different media, incompatible, and so unable to translate successfully back and forth. You couldn't put LOTR on the screen word-for-word, people would leave before they got to Buckleberry Ferry.

Movies are stories about the world created in the books. That's what they do. Books are movies with all the time in the world to paint a picture.
I'm talking dragging authors' good names into movies that are not actually related to the work they purport to carry, or making useless, pointless changes to the script from the original... possibly even ones that don't make sense and stretch suspension of disbelief beyond breaking.

Give a man credit for being able to appreciate when a change is actually necessary to accomodate the new medium and its necessities. (like forgetting all about the Old Forest and Tom Bombadil and killing Saruman early)
Anybody who expects a movie to be faithful to a book is in for a great disappointment.
I expect a movie that puts the title of a well known work onto the poster to at least try to be a decent rendition of said work, allowing for the constrains of movie format and a modicum of artistic licence compatible with remaining a decent rendition.

Well, Jackson didn't do so bad, I've withdrawn his sentence after seeing the extended versions of the movies... and the guy who did Blade Runner never even was put on trial. John milius, david lynch, verhoeven and coppola aren't getting off so easily.
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Re: Book and movie... before or after?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:01 pm

There are good adaptations, and bad adaptations. A blank statement just don't work, IMNSHO.
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Re: Book and movie... before or after?

Post by macdoc » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:05 pm

I've done two where book and movie were in the same 24 hour period.
One I read the book first ( Seabiscuit ) and the other The Big Year was the reverse.

Done well they compliment - that was the case with Seabiscuit. the other one the movie strayed enough they were different works but if you were not already a twitcher you might need to read the book to get it at all.

In LOTR - most had read the books long before and were thrilled when the movies brought it to life mostly as we imagined.

Read the Hobbit first.
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Re: Book and movie... before or after?

Post by Audley Strange » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:19 pm

amused wrote:Both.

I saw The Shining before reading the book. The movie is much better, IMO.
Did someone mention The Shining?

:{D

It's my favourite movie. However the book, though different, I think is one of the greatest horror novels of the 20th century, much, much better than anything else King has ever written by far and it is such a brilliant and classic idea. I found it quite excellent.

On the main topic though, it's like comparing kitchens and concentration camps. They might both have gas ovens, but they bear little relation to each other.
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Re: Bok and movie... before or after?

Post by Hermit » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:32 pm

Pappa wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Bok first, always.
:dis:

Leaving aside the "book is always better" bit. If you watch the film first, your image of the story will always be tainted by the visual aspects of the film. If you read the book first, you get the image your minds creates from the words. Then later, you get the image the director of the film wanted to portray. You can appreciate both. That's spoiled if you watch the film first.
Good point. Films necessarily put your imagination, in relation to the visuals at least, into a straitjacket. It is also impossible to give an accurate rendition of many passages of a novel. Film makers do not translate literary works. They interpret them. Some of those interpretations are really good, though, while others fail. And some directors and script writers feel free to merely allude to the original work their product is claimed to be based on - again with wildly varying results.

As for the book always being better than the film, I can think of at least two where this is not the case. Sam Peckinpah adapted Gordon Williams' novel, The Siege of Trencher's Farm, in 1971. Known as Straw Dogs, the film turned a predictable, one-dimensional, bland story of a mouse who became a man into a riveting depiction of chaos, irrationality and how little we are capable of determining our fate. Around the same time Ken Russel stripped the turgid stuff out of D.H. Lawrence's Women in Love. The film version is eminently more watchable than the book is readable. Russel also adapted Aldous Huxley's historical novel, The Devils of Loudon, taking great liberties in the process. I like both the book and the film for what they are very much. Pity Russel never turned his skills to Huxley's other historical novel, Grey Eminence.
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Re: Bok and movie... before or after?

Post by klr » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:12 pm

Hermit wrote:
Pappa wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:Bok first, always.
:dis:

Leaving aside the "book is always better" bit. If you watch the film first, your image of the story will always be tainted by the visual aspects of the film. If you read the book first, you get the image your minds creates from the words. Then later, you get the image the director of the film wanted to portray. You can appreciate both. That's spoiled if you watch the film first.
Good point. Films necessarily put your imagination, in relation to the visuals at least, into a straitjacket. It is also impossible to give an accurate rendition of many passages of a novel. Film makers do not translate literary works. They interpret them. Some of those interpretations are really good, though, while others fail. And some directors and script writers feel free to merely allude to the original work their product is claimed to be based on - again with wildly varying results.

As for the book always being better than the film, I can think of at least two where this is not the case. Sam Peckinpah adapted Gordon Williams' novel, The Siege of Trencher's Farm, in 1971. Known as Straw Dogs, the film turned a predictable, one-dimensional, bland story of a mouse who became a man into a riveting depiction of chaos, irrationality and how little we are capable of determining our fate. Around the same time Ken Russel stripped the turgid stuff out of D.H. Lawrence's Women in Love. The film version is eminently more watchable than the book is readable. Russel also adapted Aldous Huxley's historical novel, The Devils of Loudon, taking great liberties in the process. I like both the book and the film for what they are very much. Pity Russel never turned his skills to Huxley's other historical novel, Grey Eminence.
Lord of The Rings is a case in point. It's probably just as well that the movies made extensive use of the artwork by John Howe and Alan Lee, so the basic visuals at least conformed to the images I already had in my mind. But it could have been all very different ...
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Re: Bok and movie... before or after?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:23 pm

klr wrote:Lord of The Rings is a case in point. It's probably just as well that the movies made extensive use of the artwork by John Howe and Alan Lee, so the basic visuals at least conformed to the images I already had in my mind. But it could have been all very different ...
They worked on the movies, so Rivendell and Lothlorien were just as one would expect.
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Re: Bok and movie... before or after?

Post by klr » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:25 pm

Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
klr wrote:Lord of The Rings is a case in point. It's probably just as well that the movies made extensive use of the artwork by John Howe and Alan Lee, so the basic visuals at least conformed to the images I already had in my mind. But it could have been all very different ...
They worked on the movies, so Rivendell and Lothlorien were just as one would expect.
Can you imagine if they weren't used? :nervous:
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Re: Bok and movie... before or after?

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 27, 2012 3:26 pm

klr wrote:
Gawdzilla Sama wrote:
klr wrote:Lord of The Rings is a case in point. It's probably just as well that the movies made extensive use of the artwork by John Howe and Alan Lee, so the basic visuals at least conformed to the images I already had in my mind. But it could have been all very different ...
They worked on the movies, so Rivendell and Lothlorien were just as one would expect.
Can you imagine if they weren't used? :nervous:
I can't imagine that project without them.
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