Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

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Alan B
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Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by Alan B » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:03 pm

The Guardian
Pope Francis has called for a translation of a phrase about temptation in the Lord's Prayer to be changed.

The current wording that says "lead us not into temptation" is not a good translation, because God does not lead humans to sin, he says.

He suggests using "do not let us fall into temptation" instead, he told Italian TV on Wednesday night.
...
The pontiff said France's Roman Catholic Church was now using the new wording "do not let us fall into temptation" as an alternative, and something similar should be used worldwide
Well, the suggested re-wording makes more sense, but I've always understood that line to mean: When seeking the path to Spiritual Realisation (Nirvana, et al), do not be tempted by the material way of life.

The 'Lord's Prayer', as far as I'm concerned, is nothing more than a concise set of instructions (by Jesus) on setting the personal conditions for meditation. Nothing to do with 'God' whatsoever. Jesus himself stated that the kingdom of heaven, where this 'God' is supposed to reside, is not somewhere externally physical, but within one's self (Luke 17:20-21).
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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by Forty Two » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:42 pm

I don't know where he gets that. God supposedly led Ramses into sin in the Moses/Exodus story. All the times that God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" to cause Pharaoh not to let the Jews leave Egypt - so, if Pharaoh was doing wrong when god hardened his heart, then I guess god led him down that road.

Also the Bible says, “Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil” (Matthew 4:1). The Spirit is the Holy Spirit, one of the personages of God, and he literally led Jesus into temptation.
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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by NineBerry » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:44 pm

But Jesus is another personage of God, so he let himself into temptation!
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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by Rum » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:48 pm

[quote="NineBerry"]But Jesus is another personage of God, so he let himself into temptation!


...and sent himself to sacrifice himself to himself to save us from himself, all by his omnipotent self.

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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by NineBerry » Fri Dec 08, 2017 3:50 pm

Christians should just go the Muslim way and use the prayer in the original Aramaic or Greek...

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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by Alan B » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:07 pm

Forty Two wrote:I don't know where he gets that. God supposedly led Ramses into sin in the Moses/Exodus story. All the times that God "hardened Pharaoh's heart" to cause Pharaoh not to let the Jews leave Egypt - so, if Pharaoh was doing wrong when god hardened his heart, then I guess god led him down that road.

Also the Bible says, “Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil” (Matthew 4:1). The Spirit is the Holy Spirit, one of the personages of God, and he literally led Jesus into temptation.
Not only that, but didn't Gawd instruct Lucifer (one of his angels) to go along and try to mislead the humans in order to 'test' them?

That sounds like a deliberate invention by the local priests as a ploy to maintain control of the ignorant goat-herders.
Absolute faith corrupts as absolutely as absolute power - Eric Hoffer.
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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by Feck » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:28 pm

Catlicks :eddy: They went mental at the thought of the faithful even reading the book in the first place ......
They start reading AND thinking and the day to day role of The Church ends And they will simply become fund managers for the largest, tax free, land and investment fund in the world.
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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by Brian Peacock » Fri Dec 08, 2017 5:15 pm

Our Mother,
Who art in the kitchen,
Hallowed be thy cakes.
Thy current bun,
Thy pie of plum...
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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by JimC » Sat Dec 09, 2017 3:58 am

For Satanists, it's "Our Father, who wert in heaven..." :Jack:
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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 9:43 am

Our school version started:

Our father that farts in heaven
Hollowed be your smell...

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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by pErvinalia » Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:35 am

In German he would be 'Vater' - i.e. phonetically farter... :D
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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 11:58 am

He is never "vader" in Dutch. Always "heer" which is odd as it also means "mister".
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by NineBerry » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:12 pm

Onze Vader, die in de hemel zijt,
uw naam worde geheiligd,
uw rijk kome,
uw wil geschiede
op aarde zoals in de hemel.
Geef ons heden ons dagelijks brood
en vergeef ons onze schuld,
zoals ook wij aan anderen hun schuld vergeven,
en leid ons niet in bekoring,
maar verlos ons van het kwade.
Amen.

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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by NineBerry » Sat Dec 09, 2017 12:22 pm


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Re: Pope Francis: Change the 'Lord's Prayer'

Post by Scot Dutchy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 1:02 pm

I have only heard it with "Onze heer dat in de hemel zijt" but I dont go to church. Depends which church really and there have been schisms over this. Like everything in the protestant church. No one agrees.

http://www.heardutchhere.net/du3ourfathers.html
"Wat is het een gezellig boel hier".

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