Scientific Proof Of God

[pErvinalia]

Exactly.

[laklak]

[Forty Two]

Arguably, couldn't the flat Earth be a disc with the face, not the edge, between the sun and the moon?

[Brian Peacock]

You could argue that if you like. Go on, give it a try.

[pErvinalia]

What do you mean "couldn't it be"?? It bloody well is!

[rainbow]

Hang on, I see my problem. I was stuck in the old way of thinking that the earth is a sphere. I forgot it's actually flat. D'oh!

Not quite.

It must be dish-shaped, or all the sea would run over the edge.

You didn't think this one through, now did you?

[pErvinalia]

D'oh!

[Scot Dutchy]

Which puddle does the sun sink into?

[Forty Two]

You could argue that if you like. Go on, give it a try.

Flat Earth is a fun exercise to play. It's especially effective for teaching the scientific method, logic and an understanding of preconceived notions or assumptions vs an understanding of evidence of and proof. Ask a room full of teenagers to prove that the Earth is spheroid, and most of them will not be able to do it. In fact, I put it to you that if you tried to get the average adult to prove the Earth is spheroid, they would be hard pressed to explain it. It's not the ability to parrot the right answer that counts. What really counts is whether one can understand how we know something like that.

How do we know the Earth is spheroid? How do we know the stars are big and far away? How do we know the universe is expanding? How do we know that humans evolved? How do we know that the Earth is billions of years old? The right answers are important to know, but the basics of how this stuff was actually proved is far more important. Each of these concepts was revolutionary in its time, so it's not surprising that people want to believe the opposite of what we know to be true today. What we know to be true today is counterintuitive to the information people get in their heads through daily life. It takes additional info.

I like to remember Asimov's "Relativity of Wrong" article. He wrote, basically, that believing the Earth was "flat" was wrong, but it was nearly right, and it appeared to be right.

Another way of looking at it is to ask what is the "curvature" of the earth's surface Over a considerable length, how much does the surface deviate (on the average) from perfect flatness. The flat-earth theory would make it seem that the surface doesn't deviate from flatness at all, that its curvature is 0 to the mile.

Nowadays, of course, we are taught that the flat-earth theory is wrong; that it is all wrong, terribly wrong, absolutely. But it isn't. The curvature of the earth is nearly 0 per mile, so that although the flat-earth theory is wrong, it happens to be nearly right. That's why the theory lasted so long.

http://chem.tufts.edu/answersinscience/ ... fwrong.htm

[Hermit]

How do we know the Earth is spheroid?

We don't actually have to retrace the scientific history from Eratosthenes's experiment (although that in itself would go a long way to establish that the earth is not flat) to today. A single photograph will do the trick for all but hardened conspiracy theorists.

[NineBerry]

Photoshopped

[Hermit]

Photoshopped

... will do the trick for all but hardened conspiracy theorists.

[Forty Two]

How do we know the Earth is spheroid?

We don't actually have to retrace the scientific history from Eratosthenes's experiment (although that in itself would go a long way to establish that the earth is not flat) to today. A single photograph will do the trick for all but hardened conspiracy theorists.

I was thinking more of the thought experiments involving proofs of the spherical nature of the Earth - http://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-p ... und#page-7

[Hermit]

How do we know the Earth is spheroid?

We don't actually have to retrace the scientific history from Eratosthenes's experiment (although that in itself would go a long way to establish that the earth is not flat) to today. A single photograph will do the trick for all but hardened conspiracy theorists.

I was thinking more of the thought experiments involving proofs of the spherical nature of the Earth - http://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-p ... und#page-7

And I was thinking we don't need thought experiments. After all, scientific knowledge is ultimately based on observation. So, what can we observe? Yes, as JBS Haldane (I think) asked something like: "How would your perception of the sun's path differ if the earth was flat?", indicating that observations can and do give rise to wrong theories, NASA's earthrise photo is a really good basis for knowing that the Earth is spheroid.

I also note that #4 in the link you provided is an illustration of Eratosthenes's experiment.

[Forty Two]

We need the thought experiments so people learn to figure stuff out, and not just parrot what they're told or believe the pictures they see.

If we go by what we "observe" then indeed, flat earthers are doing that. As Asimov wrote in the piece to which I linked, the flat Earth theory was very nearly right, which is why it persisted for so long.

Of course the photo evidence is good, but it also relies on the accuracy of the photograph and the veracity of the photographer. The methods in the article I linked to do not rely on photographs.

One could also take a flight in an airplane, and see evidence of the curvature of the Earth, but for people to really understand science and also critical analysis (real critical analysis of information), they have to be able to think. And, Flat Earth is a really good example to use with people to show how most of them will laugh at a Flat Earther without being able to demonstrate why they believe the Earth is spherical.

It's also important to force oneself to justify what one thinks is the most obvious or the things most taken for granted. I'm not saying people ought to waste their whole lives doing that. But, it's important to have done it. Why do I believe what I believe? People often believe in gods the same way they believe the Earth is round or flat - it seems obvious to them - it seems unquestionable, a given. It's by examining our most dearly held beliefs or our foregone conclusions that we learn both wisdom and humility, and we stop mocking and laughing at people who lack such wisdom, humility or the wit to figure things out.