Generally speaking...

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Generally speaking...

Post by Lozzer » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:02 pm

What would the typical reaction be, to say, pronouncing one's atheism in Southern US? If one was a tourist, and say, one was invited to a dinner and religion came into topic, what would people say to you if you were to mention it?
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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by Animavore » Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:03 pm

Say, in my country we don't believe that. Then you turn it around on them and they'll either drop it or get really interested about what people do believe in your country.
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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by Millefleur » Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:50 pm

Tell them the UK declared its allegiance with Lord Xenu but its none of their concern anyway 'cos he's about to go all Galactic Overlord on their Jesus-lovin' Merkin asses.
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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by lsdetroit » Sat Oct 30, 2010 12:09 am

people would react with anger and disgust. and thats not just limited to southern US.
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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:09 am

Lozzer wrote:What would the typical reaction be, to say, pronouncing one's atheism in Southern US? If one was a tourist, and say, one was invited to a dinner and religion came into topic, what would people say to you if you were to mention it?
Some would ignore it, some would be shocked, some would try to make you see the light. One or two would threaten to kill you.
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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by Kristie » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:11 am

lsdetroit wrote:people would react with anger and disgust. and thats not just limited to southern US.
:mehthis:
They would immediately think less of you and try to make you feel like the idiot. :roll:
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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by inSCIENCE'sname » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:53 pm

From experience, I would say it depends on how well you knew the family. I think most southern families would hear you say it, get defensive and talk about the wonders of god anyway but not overtly try to convert you since you are not family (though they wouldn't have you over again). If you were, for some reason, having dinner with a "hick" family they would probably become aggressive and extremely offended and ask you to leave. If they were family, say aunts or cousins, then you can prepare to be prayed over, yelled at or both then and there.

Most Southerners, with the exception of an obnoxious few, are actually quite polite. They don't want to yell or talk about any subject that makes them (or their current situation) uncomfortable and they truly don't want to offend. They are also much more likely to treat you as an equal if you are over the age of 35 and even more so if you are a bread-winning male.

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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Sat Oct 30, 2010 3:54 pm

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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by hiyymer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:21 am

Gawdzilla wrote:America has no atheists
Thanks for the link. Yes, but Lester Maddox still looked like a southern nut from the west coast where I grew up. Racism is polite in Oregon and non-denominational.

I think atheist means something in the United States which is a little different than other places. We have this history of loud strident anti-religious atheists. It means enemy of religion. You identify yourself as not just without a god, but also dedicated to no one else having a god either. Even in the link he defines atheist as someone who thinks religion is a scam. So you go around telling people that, and why shouldn't they get miffed. I'm technically an atheist, but I'm not on some rationalist delusional trip that eliminating religion would change the world, so I don't identify with the word. If asked, I just say I don't go to church much. I don't tell anyone else they shouldn't.

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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:26 am

hiyymer wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:America has no atheists
Thanks for the link. Yes, but Lester Maddox still looked like a southern nut from the west coast where I grew up. Racism is polite in Oregon and non-denominational.

I think atheist means something in the United States which is a little different than other places. We have this history of loud strident anti-religious atheists. It means enemy of religion. You identify yourself as not just without a god, but also dedicated to no one else having a god either. Even in the link he defines atheist as someone who thinks religion is a scam. So you go around telling people that, and why shouldn't they get miffed. I'm technically an atheist, but I'm not on some rationalist delusional trip that eliminating religion would change the world, so I don't identify with the word. If asked, I just say I don't go to church much. I don't tell anyone else they shouldn't.
The reason we have to be louder here is because of the screaming from the religious right. We would be drowned out if we didn't speak up.

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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by hiyymer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:39 am

hiyymer wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote:America has no atheists
Thanks for the link. Yes, but Lester Maddox still looked like a southern nut from the west coast where I grew up. Racism is polite in Oregon and non-denominational.

I think atheist means something in the United States which is a little different than other places. We have this history of loud strident anti-religious atheists. It means enemy of religion. You identify yourself as not just without a god, but also dedicated to no one else having a god either. Even in the link he defines atheist as someone who thinks religion is a scam. So you go around telling people that, and why shouldn't they get miffed. I'm technically an atheist, but I'm not on some rationalist delusional trip that eliminating religion would change the world, so I don't identify with the word. If asked, I just say I don't go to church much. I don't tell anyone else they shouldn't.
http://www.project-reason.org/archive/i ... thout_god/

I think De Waal is saying that religion is a cultural expression of our biological nature, and we will always have something that looks like religion unless we re-engineer the genes or wait to evolve into something else.

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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:41 am

hiyymer wrote:I think De Waal is saying that religion is a cultural expression of our biological nature, and we will always have something that looks like religion unless we re-engineer the genes or wait to evolve into something else.
I would ask him if he really knew enough about genetics to make that claim. Seems like justification more than anything else.
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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by hiyymer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:48 am

Gawdzilla wrote: The reason we have to be louder here is because of the screaming from the religious right. We would be drowned out if we didn't speak up.

"I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty from religion, or I'll give you death."
It's not really the whole country. It's geographical. Part of the reason I feel the way I do is that I spent my life in the corner of Connecticut next to NYC. There you can believe anything you want (although it's not a bad idea to join the country club and go to the episcopalian church if you want to be a mover and shaker), and the evangelicals are the ones that keep mum about their beliefs in order to maintain any cred at all. You can put a little fish on the back of your car, but if you put the bright Jesus Saves sticker on, you may be limiting your circle of friends. These are the people that interview the visiting heartland politicians to make sure they will support deregulation of the financial markets before they give them money to get elected on their stupid anti-abortion platforms.

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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by Gawdzilla Sama » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:50 am

hiyymer wrote:
Gawdzilla wrote: The reason we have to be louder here is because of the screaming from the religious right. We would be drowned out if we didn't speak up.

"I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty from religion, or I'll give you death."
It's not really the whole country. It's geographical. Part of the reason I feel the way I do is that I spent my life in the corner of Connecticut next to NYC. There you can believe anything you want (although it's not a bad idea to join the country club and go to the episcopalian church if you want to be a mover and shaker), and the evangelicals are the ones that keep mum about their beliefs in order to maintain any cred at all. You can put a little fish on the back of your car, but if you put the bright Jesus Saves sticker on, you may be limiting your circle of friends. These are the people that interview the visiting heartland politicians to make sure they will support deregulation of the financial markets before they give them money to get elected on their stupid anti-abortion platforms.
So it's not genetic, then? It's sociological.
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Re: Generally speaking...

Post by hiyymer » Tue Nov 02, 2010 11:57 am

Gawdzilla wrote:
hiyymer wrote:I think De Waal is saying that religion is a cultural expression of our biological nature, and we will always have something that looks like religion unless we re-engineer the genes or wait to evolve into something else.
I would ask him if he really knew enough about genetics to make that claim. Seems like justification more than anything else.
That's just my interpretation. He is a very well-respected scientist. I don't even know if he is religious himself. Probably not. I'm not sure what you think he is "justifying". He has a distinct point of view from his life studying primates, and has written lay books on the subject. I haven't read them, but I do tend to agree with him. It's not genes so much as the fact that we are still animals and still a part of nature and free will is still just something that our brain invents in our consciousness. Stand back and look at what we spend our time doing. Are we really free to invent any life we choose? As he says we have cell phones but we are still monkey brains. We mistake our social impulses for "reason", but they are just as instinctual as our compulsion to have sex.

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