Marriage and Atheism

[Rum]

As our politicians here in the UK gear up for an election (around May time) they are establishing various positions. In terms of taxations, breaks and support the Conservatives (more or less the equivalent of the Republicans, though probably with fewer loonies..arguably) say they intend to support marriage by ensuring taxation favours them. Labour on the other hand (read Democrats..ish) say that the majority of lone parents are lone because of divorce, separation, bereavement and so on and to favour married couples would be discriminatory in effect. The media are trying to set this up as a polarising issue, though in reality it isn't.

Anyway - marriage, particularly as it relates to child rearing - what's your take?

[Sisifo]

My take is that the words "think" and "marriage" should never be in the same sentence.

[FBM]

[The Atheist]

Anyway - marriage, particularly as it relates to child rearing - what's your take?

Compared to sole parenting, marriage looks pretty good in terms of long-term results for the child. (Do I need to cite that? Surely not, so I won't bother.)

Compared to cohabiting non-married relationships, marriage tends to last longer and be more stable: http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/conten ... 022&db=all

Although the study was done by a Canuck, so may not be all that reliable. There are other studies showing similar results.

Marriage wins.

[Chinaski]

I think it's an unfounded social institution, that sets parameters for us all to live by.

Fuck it.

[floppit]

In regard to the whole country and state intervention I think there would be some far more effective ways of helping couples either stay together or part amicably. While there is some debate over the effectiveness of traditional counselling in the realm of conflict and relationships I think it may well have far more to offer. It's my personal experience that so many people have little knowledge or ability to resolve rather than escalate conflict, like sticking to the subject disagreed over rather than getting drawn into generalisations of a person's whole character. I think good relationship counselling is possible and may be helpful/cost effective to provide free of charge.

Where stats on children raised in single parent families are concerned I'm wary and would only assess one article at a time. My reason for added caution is the number of confounding variables that exist, for example how economic wellbeing may improve both the chances of a couple staying together AND the life chances of children within the family, or the emotional cost on children of a bitter divorce as opposed to the actual effect of being raised by a lone parent, or the rates of unplanned pregnancy inside and outside of marriage, age of childbirth, educational level of parents - it's easy to see how this list can get almost endless without any strain on the relevance of the confounding variable involved. Because of this my position on tax breaks for two parent families is part 'Cheers - that'll help personally' but mostly I don't know.

In regard to my own marriage, I didn't think about the paperwork or formal process a great deal. My reality was that I was ready and confident to feel that this man was my choice, I said what I felt. Honour, trying to be honourable, is more important to me than the paper copy, to say is to sign and as old fashioned as that might be holding to it as closely as I'm able is a fundamental part of how I see myself and all my relationships. I agreed to the ceremony because it was honest and gave a chance for all of us to celebrate - I think that's no small thing. The desire to do I as have said isn't the strongest thing though, it is easily trumped by Munchkin's wellbeing. When I married I believed nothing could shake the foundations, when I had a child I realised many things can. That said, Munchkin adores her Dad and so do I so for now there's no conflict. When I married I added one promise myself, out of it all the one I wrote is the one said between me and him - to be his best friend, his lover and his wife for all time. When I thought he would be brain damaged (he wasn't) I knew I'd put Munchkin first, if we couldn't have a happy house together we would have to be apart but if the boot was on the other foot I'd want that from him. I think I would try anything for happiness with us together, I'd get help, I'd learn new things I'd try my bloody backside off not just because I love him but also because Freya does and he adds a quality to her life I couldn't just replace, just as I add something he could not simply replace.

So... I think more could be done to give people the tools to stay together or part as friends and as a culture I reckon it's a no brainer to say we'd benefit from more careful and considered family planning, although what part the state can play in that is less clear.

[FBM]

I served my time.

[devogue]

The problem isn't marriage.

It's parent(s) who are lazy, selfish and apathetic.

[Clinton Huxley]

Seems to be working out fine for me, I wouldn't change my circumstances. I wouldn't privelege the institution over other "family units" though. My parents got divorced when I was 2 and I'm jolly glad they did as Pappa Huxley was (and as far as I know still is) a feckless moron.

[Animavore]

If my arm was twisted I might get married in a registry office but there is no way I would get married in a church. Not a hope. In fact very soon I'm not even going to be a member of the Catholic Church and for me to get married I'd have to make an oath that any children will be raised Catholic and I will not play any part in its "spiritual upbringing". A worm of snot burst out my nose when I heard that.
I'd rather just simply not get married. My brother has 3 lovely kids with his girlfriend and they're perfectly happy without marriage. I don't think its relevant to modern and progressive people.

[Thinking Aloud]

... In fact very soon I'm not even going to be a member of the Catholic Church and for me to get married I'd have to make an oath that any children will be raised Catholic and I will not play any part in its "spiritual upbringing...

I made that promise, to bring up children in the faith. But then at the time we'd no intention of having any, and I was a believer, so it wasn't a big deal. But as with any promise subsequently found to be rooted in a falsehood, it's worthless, and I certainly won't be held to it.

I'd rather just simply not get married. My brother has 3 lovely kids with his girlfriend and they're perfectly happy without marriage. I don't think its relevant to modern and progressive people.

Marriage to me is making a mutual promise and commitment to another individual - regardless of the legality, ceremony, blessing from Dog, or whatever. I think if individuals can make that to each other "for better or worse" then - especially if kids are part of the equation - it's a bond that can be relied on if things get bad. It's saying "you're not alone" to someone you care about very deeply - and more to the point, "for as long as I am able, I will be here for you."

[Clinton Huxley]

I got married in a catholic church. My wife is not religious but is from a catholic family and she just wanted to get married in church. I had no issues with it, it was a great day and the priest didn't seem very religious either....It was my decision to go along with this, I could have pressed for a registry office do but didn't feel strongly enough about it.

Where there may be trouble is the issue of getting the mini-Huxley's christened. It hasn't happened so far, MH1 is in a non-aligned school, so we didn't have to pretend to be religious and Mrs Huxley hasn't mentioned it recently. At one time she did hint that she wanted the bairns to be baptised.

My tactic is simply to keep schtum about the whole issue...

I totally agree with TAs comments on this.

[Animavore]

My tactic is simply to keep schtum about the whole issue...

Well I hope it works.
I tend to be very out-spoken so if I ever did settle down with a woman she would almost certainly be an atheist. I would absolutely put the foot down on issues relating to the church. There's no way I would want my kid baptised the whole thing is a joke to me. I only realised this one day when I done godfather for my oldest niece as I was walking around the alter in an anti-clockwise direction wondering what the fuck I was doing. I did not go to the mass for the other 2 kids (although went to the afters). Its got to the point now were my family don't even bother asking me to go to any type of mass although I will always go to the party after and congratulate people.
I think its near impossible I will settle with even a shallowly religious person who doesn't go to mass but still wants the christening, communion and confirmation. I would end up fighting them every step of the way and it would only cause a rift.

[devogue]

My tactic is simply to keep schtum about the whole issue...

Well I hope it works.
I tend to be very out-spoken so if I ever did settle down with a woman she would almost certainly be an atheist. I would absolutely put the foot down on issues relating to the church. There's no way I would want my kid baptised the whole thing is a joke to me. I only realised this one day when I done godfather for my oldest niece as I was walking around the alter in an anti-clockwise direction wondering what the fuck I was doing. I did not go to the mass for the other 2 kids (although went to the afters). Its got to the point now were my family don't even bother asking me to go to any type of mass although I will always go to the party after and congratulate people.
I think its near impossible I will settle with even a shallowly religious person who doesn't go to mass but still wants the christening, communion and confirmation. I would end up fighting them every step of the way and it would only cause a rift.

I'm much more relaxed about the whole religious thing as life's punctuation marks.

I see it as a means to an end, the end being the almighty piss up that happens after it.

Oh, and the more boring and shitty the religious service, the tastier the first pint and the better the craic is.

[Animavore]

My tactic is simply to keep schtum about the whole issue...

Well I hope it works.
I tend to be very out-spoken so if I ever did settle down with a woman she would almost certainly be an atheist. I would absolutely put the foot down on issues relating to the church. There's no way I would want my kid baptised the whole thing is a joke to me. I only realised this one day when I done godfather for my oldest niece as I was walking around the alter in an anti-clockwise direction wondering what the fuck I was doing. I did not go to the mass for the other 2 kids (although went to the afters). Its got to the point now were my family don't even bother asking me to go to any type of mass although I will always go to the party after and congratulate people.
I think its near impossible I will settle with even a shallowly religious person who doesn't go to mass but still wants the christening, communion and confirmation. I would end up fighting them every step of the way and it would only cause a rift.

I'm much more relaxed about the whole religious thing as life's punctuation marks.

I see it as a means to an end, the end being the almighty piss up that happens after it.

Oh, and the more boring and shitty the religious service, the tastier the first pint and the better the craic is.

Well although I fully agree with the whole piss-up thing I would just rather not have any religious involvement in my life. I always sit at the very back of a church for funerals now so I don't have to do any standing, kneeling or praying. When I hear a priest speak I'm usually face-palming and to be honest the whole thing is next to an ordeal for me. I can't stand a priest talking about a loved one and how they are now with the Father in heaven when they can't possibly know. I came really close to walking out on my grand-father's funeral but I knew it wouldn't go down well with the family and it wasn't the time to be making a theological point. I can't really express how much I hate the institution. I am far from "relaxed" about it. I always hated the church since I was a child and feel like I have no business being there at all.