What were you before you became and atheist?

[JimC]

Simply non-religious, without any opinions or interest in other people's foibles...

Now, thanks to RD, I know they're all arsesholes...

[Svartalf]

Christian and kichigaiko. I'm still kichigai, but I lost the Christ bit somewhere in childhood, I know not where.

Kichigai? and just what kind of crazy is that?

[charlou]

My parents tried their best to make me Catholic. Didn't work.

My mother (along with those in her various churches over the years of my childhood) was determined to make me "christian" and it didn't work. Religion was always bollocks to me.

I did, however, believe in a creator god being the initial cause. When I realised that was unnecessary, I stopped believing it. It wasn't until a bit later that I thought of myself as an atheist. On further thinking about it, I'm now what people call a strong atheist. I not only don't believe in the existence of gods, but I believe gods don't exist.

[Exi5tentialist]

Only God is eternal. To deny something into eternity is to make an alliance with God. Therefore 'never' is a deeply, deeply religious idea. I would never use the word, personally.

Fail. No mention of eternity is necessary. I've been in existence 56 years, and have been an atheist all that time. Therefore I've "never been anything but an atheist".

You really aren't very good at this, are you?

You only need to mention the last 56 years then. To bring in the whole of eternity and everything that preceded it is not only unnecessary but profoundly religious. But given what you said, I doubt you'd ever understand that.

[charlou]

No.

I agree. In the final analysis, no-one can really claim to be an atheist. Or at least no-one I've ever come across. Most people claiming to be atheists still retain profound prejudices based on the predominant religion of their parental culture. Hitchens, Dawkins, Harris, Dennett are the prime example of this at one extreme; I haven't yet found the other... Sartre is a long way away from those four, though, if only because he remembers his own theistic roots, something most people are all too keen to forget.

theism is about belief in gods. atheism is the antithesis of that. I agree that culture has an ingrained effect on thinking and behaviour, and that includes any religious basis for cultural mores. I think it's possible to not believe certain assertions and tenets of religion relating to the existence of a god, while at the same time being affected by, or even practicing aspects of religion due to cultural adherence to tradition, whether or not that is by conscious choice.

[charlou]

I can't say that as a church goer I wasn't a believer. I tried to believe. I felt guilty as a pubescent child about masturbation, thinking that it was a sin and all. I remember as a grammar school age kid being afraid of nuclear war and Armageddon, thinking that I needed to be taken up to heaven before it all happens. I think that's what I ended up hating most about religion - the unnecessary angst that it caused me as a young child, and I assume I wasn't the only one with such guilt and fears.

I think this has been the most insidiously harmful aspect of religion in western culture, along with wherever it's been imposed on the people of other cultures.

[Exi5tentialist]

Only God is eternal.

Bald assertion without evidence.

Psalm 90:2
Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

I Timothy 1:17
Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.

Isaiah 57:15
For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

Genesis 21:33
And Abraham planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the Lord, the everlasting God.

Deuteronomy 33:27
The eternal God is thy refuge, and underneath are the everlasting arms: and he shall thrust out the enemy from before thee; and shall say, Destroy them.

Find me any atheist text that makes similar claims. Yes, yes, the Bible is wrong, I know, I know.... So why use concepts that originate from it? Concepts like "Never".

I'll tell you why - because we're pretty much all unreconstructed cultural theists; that fact shines through in our language, our attitudes and our belief systems, not least yours Zilla. Where does all that Zilla wrath come from anyway? It surely can't be original?

[Svartalf]

Find me good reason to consider biblical writing as evidence.

[Exi5tentialist]

Find me good reason to consider biblical writing as evidence.

Evidence of what? Objective fact? None. Evidence of cultural Christianity? Where else would you look?

[charlou]

Find me any atheist text that makes similar claims. Yes, yes, the Bible is wrong, I know, I know.... So why use concepts that originate from it? Concepts like "Never".

Do you think the concept of "Never" originates with the bible? The contents of the bible originate in the thinking of those who wrote those contents. And to a great extent, those who interpreted and edited the contents into the book.

[Robert_S]

I've never ever been a purple gazelle and most likely I never will be. Is that a theistic statement?

[charlou]

I'll tell you why - because we're pretty much all unreconstructed cultural theists; that fact shines through in our language, our attitudes and our belief systems, not least yours Zilla. Where does all that Zilla wrath come from anyway? It surely can't be original?

Does this thinking of yours hark back to your notion that we can only appreciate myths if we believe in them?

[irretating]

I can't say that as a church goer I wasn't a believer. I tried to believe. I felt guilty as a pubescent child about masturbation, thinking that it was a sin and all. I remember as a grammar school age kid being afraid of nuclear war and Armageddon, thinking that I needed to be taken up to heaven before it all happens. I think that's what I ended up hating most about religion - the unnecessary angst that it caused me as a young child, and I assume I wasn't the only one with such guilt and fears.

I think this has been the most insidiously harmful aspect of religion in western culture, along with wherever it's been imposed on the people of other cultures.

[Svartalf]

Find me good reason to consider biblical writing as evidence.

Evidence of what? Objective fact? None. Evidence of cultural Christianity? Where else would you look?

You're making a point that is valid only if one accepts your premise that there is a god in the first place, and that it exists in conformation to biblical description... sorry, but that doesn't cut the mustard, especially within the context of present discussion

[Svartalf]

I've never ever been a purple gazelle and most likely I never will be. Is that a theistic statement?

Heretic, bow to the Invisible Pink Unicorn.